The writer’s position seems to come from the Preterist school. R.C. Sproul follows this line of reasoning.
I do not understand why simply reading the New Testament would lead one to the conclusion that John’s Revelation was written so early. The early Church fathers put this book at the end of the collection and it has a distinct feel of “finality” as one of the last books written, not one of the first.
However, I think I will stick with the more common position that John wrote Revelation toward the end of his life after the Asian churches had had a chance to fall into complacency. The “Talk Through the Bible” overview by Bruce Wilkerson of Dallas Theological Seminary, suggests that Domitian would be a better candidate than Nero as the Anti-Christ alluded to by John.
Furthermore, there are several cases of “near” fulfillment and “far” fulfillment for the same prophetic utterance.
I do like the author’s suggestion that the letters should be read as if they were hand delivered to YOUR mailbox. The epistles are full of teaching which we would do well to personalize.
Oh, bother. Now what are we supposed to do with all the Rapture-themed bumperstickers?
I suppose this scripture is a not truthful...
The Coming of the Lord
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.
Nero may have been a form of antichrist....but I don’t believe he was THE antichrist. There are too many things in the Revelation that have not come to pass. There is no New Jerusalem here...yet. 2/3 of the worlds population was not annihilated during Nero’s reign...he did some damage to the Christian population...but even his great empire did not encompass the whole earth.. Jesus has not set up HIS kingdom here..yet either.
The great Battle in which Christ leads his army against the antichrist hasn’t happened either...unless we missed something during Nero’s time. If it happened during Nero’s time.....where is Jesus reigning the whole earth for a millenium? A lot of earthly governments haven’t gotten that memo yet...I suppose. Why is evil still here..when the revelation says the evil one, the Beast will be thrown into a lake of fire with all his cohorts...?
If God is who He says He is...then He is incapable of lying...to deny the “rapture” and to claim Nero the antichrist....is saying the scriptures are not true.
Saving for later.
Well, IMO if one proclaims Jesus as their "personal" savior there ought be no other way to read scripture.
“The anti-Christ was Nero, not some world figure yet to emerge in the 21st Century.”
Absolutely wrong.
“The “rapture” never happened and it never will.”
This is a denial of the Scripture.
The Book of Revelation was clearly written during one of the periods of Roman persecution, most likely during Nero's reign, which in fact would be in the early AD 60s. The code '666' actually refers to Nero, coming out of the Hebrew apocalyptic and mystic tradition, and it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the seven-headed beast, as well, as the scarlet-clad harlot of Babylon, is Rome (sitting on its seven hills). The book of Revelation is all about Rome's persecution of Christians as well as its domination of Judea, and St. John's vision of its downfall and the rise of a new city of Jerusalem is not at all about the end of time, if one studies the text very carefully and objectively.
bump for later
About the end-times: there is nothing you can do about it.
About today: you can live in Christ.
The lillies of the field do not spin.
Here is something I reflect on often about many of the non-prophetic passages that may apply to the prophetic.
Scripture often speaks to me on many several levels. As this author points out, John may seem at first to speak to a group of people. However, it also speaks directly to me.
Many OT passages and prophecy were fully understood and sometimes thought to be fully complete before Christ. After Christ we came to understand that many parts of the law, the traditions and the stories all pointed to Christ and that many of the prophecies that seemed to be fulfilled in prior times and places were also more fully filled by Christ.
For us to try and put John’s Revelation into a box that makes a claim that it only refers to Nero and Rome or that it only refers to the final days is placing more restrictions on prophecy and its purpose than we have placed on the prophets of the OT.
In short, I don’t think the question of timing of the events of Revelations is an either/or proposition as to time and place any more than I believe it is speaks merely about world events.
The same process that Revelation’s has in our outer world is the same process that takes place in our inner world. We all have inner Babylon’s that need a Christ on a white horse. We all need new Jerusalem’s paved in gold to replace the old cities we have created in our hearts. Just as the Flood is also a baptism of our inner selves and Exodus is a process of leaving our Pharaohs and learning to be dependent on God for manna, the Revelations is our final surrender for every knee or our inner selves to yield to Christ.
bookmark
“4. The “rapture” never happened and it never will.”
Simply your opinion. That’s all.
Preterism falls flat on its face by this statement alone.
That does not mean that the book does not have necessary spiritual benefit for us today. But the book is a 1st Century letter written to 1st Century people about 1st Century problems.
It is a sign of modern egotism to believe that the book speaks of modern events that we can only see unfold today with the help of contemporary writers who will help us pierce the mystery of the ages if we'll only fork over some $$$ for their latest book.
http://www.thingstocome.org/datrev.htm
When was the Revelation
of Jesus Christ written?
The Testimony of the Church Fathers
“I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.” - Rev 1:9
by Rusty Entrekin
The writing of the Revelation of Jesus Christ has been traditionally assigned to around AD 96. Because this date does not fit into their theological scheme, Full Preterists, who claim that all of Bible prophesy was fulfilled in AD 70, argue for an earlier dating of the book, prior to AD 70.
However, the testimony of the Church Fathers is that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written by John near the end of the reign of Domitian in AD 96. According to them, John was banished by Domitian to the lonely Isle of Patmos, a desolate Greek island in the Aegean Sea only 11 square miles in area. Victorinus, in his Commentary on the Apocolypse of the Blessed John, recorded that John labored in the mines of Patmos.
Domitian was a particularly cruel and ostentatious Roman emperor, who reigned from AD 81 - 96. He regularly arrested, imprisoned, and executed his enemies, even Roman noblemen and senators, and confiscated their properties for his own use. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, “The years 93-96 were regarded as a period of terror hitherto unsurpassed.”
The Britannica also informs us that “A grave source of offense was his insistence on being addressed as dominus et deus (‘master and god’).” Perhaps this aroused in Domitian a hatred of faithful Christians, who would have refused him this demand. Domitian did in fact launch a persecution of Christians. In Book three, chapter 17 of his Ecclesiastical History, Eusebius writes,
Domitian, having shown great cruelty toward many, and having unjustly put to death no small number of well-born and notable men at Rome, and having without cause exiled and confiscated the property of a great many other illustrious men, finally became a successor of Nero in his hatred and enmity toward God. He was in fact the second that stirred up a persecution against us, although his father Vespasian had undertaken nothing prejudicial to us.
Justin Martyr (b.100 AD, d.165 AD) is an early Christian writer who also testifies to this persecution. However, according to Justin, Domitian was somewhat more restrained than Nero had been in his persecution of Christians. In his Apology, Justin wrote:
Domitian, too, a man of Nero’s type in cruelty, tried his hand at persecution, but as he had something of the human in him, he soon put an end to what he had begun, even restoring again those whom he had banished.
According to the Church fathers, the Apostle John was not among those released, but even if he had been, the fact that Domitian’s reign did not begin until AD 81 means that the Revelation must have been written after that date.
Domitian was so hated for his excesses that own wife participated in the plot to assassinate him. Upon his death, his successor, Nerva, reversed many of the cruel judgments of Domitian, and John was subsequently released. Domitian’s reign ended in AD 96, and this has provided the traditional means for dating the writing of the book of Revelation.
Direct References to the Date
Although there are many indirect references to John being banished to Patmos under Domitian in the Church Fathers, there are also direct references to John’s banishment under Domitian. The earliest of these is that of Irenaeus (c. 130-202). He was bishop of Lyons in Gaul. In Against Heresies (A.D. 180-199), Book V, Chapter 30, we read:
We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian’s reign.
The church historian Eusebius Pamphili was born about 260 and died before 341. Bishop of Cæsarea in Palestine, he is known as the “Father of Church History.” Eusebius confirms the authenticity of the testimony of Irenaeus. In chapter 18, Book 3 of his Church History, we read:
It is said that in this persecution the apostle and evangelist John, who was still alive, was condemned to dwell on the island of Patmos in consequence of his testimony to the divine word. Irenaeus, in the fifth book of his work Against Heresies, where he discusses the number of the name of Antichrist which is given in the so-called Apocalypse of John, speaks as follows concerning him: a “If it were necessary for his name to be proclaimed openly at the present time, it would have been declared by him who saw the revelation. For it was seen not long ago, but almost in our own generation, at the end of the reign of Domitian.”
Regarding the reliability of the testimony of Irenaeus, in Barnes Notes on the New Testament we read:
It will be recollected that he [Irenaeus] was a disciple of Polycarp, bishop of Smyrna, who was himself the disciple of the apostle John. He had, therefore, every opportunity of obtaining correct information, and doubtless expresses the common sentiment of his age on the subject. His character is unexceptionable, and he had no inducement to bear any false or perverted testimony in the case. His testimony is plain and positive that the book was written near the close of the reign of Domitian, and the testimony should be regarded as decisive unless it can be set aside. His language in regard to the book of Revelation is: “It was seen no long time ago, but almost in our age, at the end of the reign of Domitian.”—Lardner, ii. 181. Or, as the passage is translated by Prof. Stuart: “The Apocalypse was seen not long ago, but almost in our generation, near the end of Domitian’s reign.” There can be no doubt, therefore, as to the meaning of the passage, or as to the time when Irenaeus believed the book to have been written. Domitian was put to death A.D. 96, and consequently, according to Irenaeus, the Apocalypse must have been written not far from this time.
Writing around AD 236, Hippolytis, in chapter one, verse 3 of On the Twelve Apostles, penned:
John, again, in Asia, was banished by Domitian the king to the isle of Patmos, in which also he wrote his Gospel and saw the apocalyptic vision; and in Trajan’s time he fell asleep at Ephesus, where his remains were sought for, but could not be found.
About AD 270, Victorinus, In the Tenth Chapter of his Commentary on the Apocolypse of the Blessed John, wrote
...when John said these things he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the labour of the mines by Caesar Domitian. There, therefore, he saw the Apocalypse; and when grown old, he thought that he should at length receive his quittance by suffering, Domitian being killed, all his judgments were discharged. And John being dismissed from the mines, thus subsequently delivered the same Apocalypse which he had received from God.
Jerome was born about 340. He died at Bethlehem, 30 September, 420. Jerome wrote in the Ninth Chapter of Illustrious Men,
In the fourteenth year then after Nero, Domitian, having raised a second persecution, he was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse, on which Justin Martyr and Irenaeus afterwards wrote commentaries. But Domitian having been put to death and his acts, on account of his excessive cruelty, having been annulled by the senate, he returned to Ephesus under Pertinax(1) and continuing there until the tithe of the emperor Trajan, founded and built churches throughout all Asia, and, worn out by old age, died in the sixty-eighth year after our Lord’s passion and was buried near the same city.
In Against Jovinianus, Book 1, Jerome also wrote:
“John is both an Apostle and an Evangelist, and a prophet. An Apostle, because he wrote to the Churches as a master; an Evangelist, because he composed a Gospel, a thing which no other of the Apostles, excepting Matthew, did; a prophet, for he saw in the island of Patmos, to which he had been banished by the Emperor Domitian as a martyr for the Lord, an Apocalypse containing the boundless mysteries of the future.”
Sulpitius Severus was an ecclesiastical writer who was born in Aquitaine in 360. He died about 420-25. In chapter 31 of Book 2 of his Sacred History, we read:
THEN, after an interval, Domitian, the son of Vespasian, persecuted the Christians. At this date, he banished John the Apostle and Evangelist to the island of Patmos.
Conclusion
The testimony of these ancient witnesses indicates that the Revelation of Jesus Christ was written around AD 96. This leads us to the reasonable conclusion that many of the events prophesied in it must occur later than the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD. When any interpretation of scripture flatly contradicts multiple historical witnesses, especially scholarly, respected and reliable Christian witnesses who lived much closer to the time of writing than us, this should be cause to carefully reconsider that interpretation as possibly being in error.
http://www.pfrs.org/preterism/pret01.html
There were only two Roman emperors who persecuted Christians on a large scale in the first century, Nero and Domitian. The other Emperors were either indifferent to Christianity, or did not consider it a serious threat to Rome. The first Roman persecution under Nero took place in the decade of the 60s, just before the fall of Jerusalem. Nero was responsible for the deaths of both Peter and Paul in Rome in AD67, Peter by crucifixion, and Paul by being beheaded.
There is no record of Nero’s banishing Christians to Patmos, only his brutality against the Christians of Rome. It was Nero who made a sport of throwing Christians to the lions for the entertainment of the crowds, and who burned many at the stake along the road leading to the Coliseum merely to light the entrance.
After Nero’s death Rome left the Christians alone until the rise of Domitian to power in AD81. Although not as cruel and insane as Nero, Domitian had some Christians killed, the property of Christians confiscated, Scriptures and other Christian books burned, houses destroyed, and many of the most prominent Christians banished to the prison island of Patmos.
All ancient sources, both Christian and secular, place the banishment of Christians to Patmos during the reign of Domitian (AD81-96). Not a single early source (within 500 years of John) places John’s banishment under the reign of Nero, as preterists claim. All modern attempts to date Revelation during Nero’s reign rely exclusively on alleged internal evidence, and ignore or seek to undermine the external evidence and testimony of Christians who lived about that time, some of whom had connections to John.