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To: P-Marlowe
(Romans 9:15 KJV) For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

That doesn't mean that he decided to have mercy on you before you were born, and that nothing you do in the meantime can change it.

Who determines whether or not you will enter into the Kingdom of God?

God.

You?

no

You EARNED your salvation by accepting Christ????

Need to think about it more, but earned is probably not the right word.

Or did you simply confirm your salvation (and your status as one of the elect) when you received Christ?

Not sure... but, I see, and understand the logic and the scripture behind Calvinism. But, I also see scripture and the entire theme of the New Testament that accepting Christ is a choice for you to freely make.

How to reconcile the all knowing God with Free Will? I, and others, reconcile it by not reconciling it i.e. it is a mystery.

Calvinists reconcile it by just saying there is no free will, which I think much of the new testament, as well as human experience, suggests is false. This gets back to an earlier poster who described Calvinism as lazy i.e. rather than accept that something is complex it just crosses out a major theme of the bible.

127 posted on 05/27/2007 9:51:22 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Rodney King
God.

It's not a lottery. But the cards were all dealt at the begginning of creation. Your fate was sealed before you ever took a breath.

earned is probably not the right word.

No kidding. It is a GIFT! You don't earn a gift.

But, I also see scripture and the entire theme of the New Testament that accepting Christ is a choice for you to freely make.

Indeed and if you freely make that choice then you were chosen by God from before the foundation of the earth. If you fail to make that choice, then you have exercised your free will to your own destruction.

Free will is not a great blessing to men. It is a curse. You're only hope lies in having God make you willing, and no one, in the exercise of their own free will, is willing to allow that.

This gets back to an earlier poster who described Calvinism as lazy i.e. rather than accept that something is complex it just crosses out a major theme of the bible.

My experience is that few people work as hard at "confirming their election" as committed Calvinists. Not because they feel that they need to, but because they have a burning desire to do so. It is my experience that many non-Calvinists feel a need to do good works to "secure their salvation." The Calvinist knows that his fate is entirely in the hands of God. As a non-Calvinist, I also believe that my fate is entirely in the hands of God. I wouldn't have it any other way.

130 posted on 05/27/2007 10:07:26 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Rodney King
Calvinists reconcile it by just saying there is no free will, which I think much of the new testament, as well as human experience, suggests is false. This gets back to an earlier poster who described Calvinism as lazy i.e. rather than accept that something is complex it just crosses out a major theme of the bible.

On the contrary, the Reformed faith embraces the mystery of God's sovereignty and man's free will with open arms. The freedom of will which unregenerate man does not possess is not that by which one is able to choose that which he desires. The Reformed would most readily agree that man has such volitional freedom.

The trouble, friend, is with the heart of man. It is there that man is lost, enslaved in sin. Man freely chooses that which he desires, but that which he desires is in opposition to his Creator to the extent that man's will is in effect in slavery to sin and incapable of doing anything truly good. Even his most superficially pure and noble deeds are born of a selfish desire to accomplish a self-serving end.

It is the Word of God which bears this out in laying forth the universal truth that the heart of unregenerate man is dead in trespasses and sins, wicked and depraved. But for the restraining grace of God manifest in diverse ways this world would self-destruct at the hands of the evil in the stony human heart. Were He not to intervene by breathing new life into the heart of a man and quickening within him a desire which produces the gift of faith unto salvation, man would persist without fail in his rejection of the very One by whose grace he even exists.

No, friend...the Reformed faith is neither lazy nor ignorant of what the Word says about the will of man. It works diligently to hold fast to the difficult truth the Word proclaims...that by the grace of God we are what we are.

131 posted on 05/27/2007 10:11:52 PM PDT by Frumanchu (Jerry Falwell: Now a Calvinist in Glory)
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To: Rodney King
That doesn't mean that he decided to have mercy on you before you were born

"And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." -- Acts 13:48

Most Calvinists would understand your skepticism. We, too, thought God's sovereignty ended where our human will began. But a closer look at Scripture tells us God gives faith to whom He chooses, and that choice was made before the foundation of the world.

Part of the reason for that is so that men can't boast they were smart enough or pious enough to come to faith. Instead, God determined their paths and at a time of God's choosing, their ears and eyes are opened to the truth and they understand.

And thus, most importantly, our salvation is due to Christ's work on the cross, Christ's righteousness, Christ's obedience, and not our own.

It's all of Him and none of us.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh." -- Ezekiel 36:26

138 posted on 05/28/2007 12:00:03 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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