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To: P-Marlowe; ears_to_hear
ears_to_hear said God causes every event. I don’t believe God causes anyone to sin, but if ears_to_hear maintains his position that God causes every event, he must agree that God caused Adam and Eve to sin.

I asked him if God’s cause Adam and Eve to sin.

I think ears_to_hear has a real problem on his hands for which there is no explanation; at least not a reasonable one.

I don’t think God was surprised they sinned. Disappointed, but not surprised.

29 posted on 06/02/2007 8:29:27 PM PDT by SeaHawkFan
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To: SeaHawkFan

In the sense that God created Adam & Eve knowing they would fall, then God’s plan BEFORE it was enacted called for them to sin. However, God Himself did not commit their sin nor encourage them to sin.

God could have created a different reality in which they did not sin. (If Tyre and Sidon had seen the miracles you have seen, then they would have long hence repented in sackcloth and ashes. Jesus could address other realities that could have been...but weren’t... because God chose a different reality to actually create.)


32 posted on 06/02/2007 8:46:32 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain And Proud of It! Those who support the troops will pray for them to WIN!)
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To: SeaHawkFan; ears_to_hear
I don’t think God was surprised they sinned. Disappointed, but not surprised.

How can God be "disappointed" if, in fact, he knew exactly what they would do and exactly when they would do it?

God caused Adam and Eve. He placed them in the garden knowing they would sin. He allowed the serpent to tempt Eve, knowing that Eve would succumb to the temptation. He made Eve as a helpmate for Adam, knowing full well that she would convince him to eat of the forbidden fruit. God knew from the beginning that he would have to send his Son to be crucified to atone for that sin.

There is nothing that happens that is not ordained by God. God knew that Jesus would have to die on the cross if he placed Adam and Eve in the garden. He placed Adam and Eve in the Garden. Therefore since God put everything in motion and knew exactly what would happen, how can you claim that God is not a cause? He is the first cause of all things. His plan includes both mercy and judgment.

So was God ignorant of the consequences of placing Adam & Eve in the Garden? Or was it all part of his plan?

47 posted on 06/02/2007 10:33:43 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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