Posted on 06/04/2007 11:17:36 AM PDT by pjr12345
I have no notion of “always saved”. The Bible clearly requires continuation in obedience to the Gospel. The atoning sacrifice of Jesus is always available to cleanse one from all unrighteousness, but we have to “come and get it” (so to speak). If we fail in our duty to fight the good fight, run the race, then we have no access to the blessings of (and through) Christ.
As to RCC Baptism. I don’t agree that Scripture supports the idea of “original sin”. If I did, then I’d be in full support of infant baptism (it is logical extension from the idea of original sin). Rather, baptism requires a person to have heard and believed the Gospel, and then move forward in obedience, beginning with full immersion water baptism. A person who is incapable of rationality cannot rightly make such a decision.
Finally, the idea that one of your “priests” can dispense forgiveness on behalf of God is ludicrous.
You see, I’m not so close after all! ;)
Good Point. I still don't agree with your argument though.
I was saved on December 8, 2004 in the sleeper of my truck in a rest area on I-80. I believed on Him and confessed my sins to Him. I then ask Him to take over every aspect of my life. I didn't get baptized until April or May of 2005. Are you saying that I did not have salvation until I was immersed in water?
In Christ
Matthew 3:11 `I indeed do baptize you with water to reformation, but he who after me is coming is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to bear the sandals, he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire,
Luke 3:15 The people were waiting expectantly and were all wondering in their hearts if John might possibly be the Christ. 16 John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
It’s not what I say that matters, it’s what God says through His Word. I encourage you to undertake the same study I did, and let the Word speak for itself. It truly changed my view.
A few more Scriptures:
2Corinthians 5:7 — 7 For we walk by faith, not by sight.
Hebrews 11:1 — 1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Acts 17:11 — 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
Are you supposing that this statement excludes the possibility that Jesus performed water baptisms, too?
If so, more speculation. Not unreasonable, mind you, but still...
Some were followers of John the Baptist and would have been baptized by him.
I don't understand are you guys saying that John the Baptist or Christ baptized in the name of the Father, Son an Holy Ghost?
That is my belief. They where still in the Old Testament until Jesus was put on the alter. I don't believe you will find many who will disagree with that even in the Church of Christ. He could not baptized in the name of the Trinity until the Coruscation, the way I see it.
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
And I disagree for the following reasons.
John’s baptism was from heaven, he having been filled with the Holy Spirit while in his mother’s womb.
John baptized for the remission of sin.
John required his believers to believe on Jesus.
exactly what you teach now.
These 12 men met these requirements, Luke even calls them diciples and believers. The only thing they lacked was the Holy Spirit as John didn’t pass that out.
3 And he said to them, “Into what then were you baptized?” So they said, “Into John’s baptism.”
4 Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7 Now the men were about twelve in all.
Verses 4 and 5, when not separated, shows that those men were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus at the time John spoke.
All Paul did was lay hands on them.
“Into John’s baptism.” Which was for the remission of sin.
God dispenses the forgiveness. Guess you haven't ever read the words of absolution. Here they are for you:
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1449 The formula of absolution used in the Latin Church expresses the essential elements of this sacrament: the Father of mercies is the source of all forgiveness. He effects the reconciliation of sinners through the Passover of his Son and the gift of his Spirit, through the prayer and ministry of the Church:
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Sorry, theology is not based on statistics, but on Biblical truth. I am not impressed with the numbers. I believe a billion Roman Catholics are very wrong about the veneration of Mary - ascribing to her the status of Co-Redemptrix and Co-Mediatrix. Numbers mean nothing!
Other wise the atheist would be right. :)
AMEN!!! You are absolutely correct!
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
16:16 doesn't say, "...he that believeth not and is not baptized shall be damned."
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
I don't know what else to say to you. Baptism is a work! If I can be saved by that work, I can be saved by any of my "good works" and the death, burial, and resurection of Jesus Christ as an atonement for my sins is in vain...AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT. I was baptized, but it was out of submission and obedience to Jesus, not for my salvation. Do you believe that a soldier in a foxhole can't be saved, get shot, die, and have received salvation for his sins...without being dipped in water? I just don't get it. What other works do you do that makes you "good enough" to get into heaven?
I don't mean to get so sarcastic, but these are the same arguments...
In Christ, Wiley
You used the term "minority report," remember?
Point taken...doesn’t change the fact that I believe “baptismal regeneration” is not biblical.
How many times must it be said that those two titles aren't dogmatic???
How many times does it need to be said that the veneration of Mary...in all its forms...is unbiblical?
Ah, a common cop-out, answering a question with a question.
That is double talk. The Roman Catholic Church is doing everything it can to make those titles dogmatic. And there are many RC's who believe they are now. This forum is a case in point...there have been a large number of threads on those very topics, as well as others that elevate Mary far above anything justified by Scripture.
I believe your question was rhetorical. Can you tell me how many times?
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