Posted on 06/15/2007 5:33:53 AM PDT by Between the Lines
I would have difficulty lumping open theist churches in with evangelical churches.
I think a lot of the newer mega church leaders are closet open theists.
Yep, sin will poke it’s head into a church. If the membership and leadership do not take action, soon sin has taken over. Sin must be purged from the midst of the church. If a perpetrator repents, then forgive them. . .but don’t put them into a position where they will have access to children ever again.
I worked at the Archdiocese of Boston during the period of this movie, it’s the last thing I want to watch...especially if it (as I have heard) makes that lying slimball Garabedian the hero.
Having a married couple serve as co-leaders of the youth group (or the youth pastor and a married couple) helped avoid a lot of pitfalls. We weren’t so concerned about the youth leader or pastor doing something as having a trouble teen CLAIM that something happened.
That’s a good step toward a set of “conversationally useful” terms ... thank you.
Would that your statement were true. Sadly, it is not.
Check out this article written by a Roman Catholic theologian for a RCC publication...
...As St. Thomas Aquinas says, the proper task of the priest consists in being a mediator between God and men ...The Catholic faith teaches that the priest is another Christ, an alter Christus... The Catholic priest is also a minister, but he is first and foremost a priest because he has been empowered by Christ to offer the sacrifice of the Mass for the salvation of all... A Mass can be invalid for a number of reasons (we presuppose that the priest has been validly ordained): 1) because of a defect in the matter, for example, using sweet rolls instead of bread made only from wheat flour and water; 2) because of a defect in the form, for example, changing the words "This is my body" or "This is the cup of my blood" into something else; 3) because the priest positively excludes the intention to do what the Church does in offering Mass... Thus, Masses offered by heretical priests, by schismatics, by Catholic priests who are plagued by doubts or who have false ideas about the Real Presence or transubstantiation, can be and probably usually are valid Masses. They must of course use the correct words of consecration, use wheat bread and wine made from grapes... One becomes a priest through the power of Jesus Christ operating through the normal channels of his Church. Orders produce an ontological or real change in the one ordained. Once consecrated he is no longer a lay person and he is no longer exactly like non-priests. He has received a charism that consecrates him to continuing Christ's prophetic and sacramental ministry... Simply stated, the Catholic priest is another Christ. Through his ordination he has been granted the amazing gift of being a channel of divine grace for the eternal salvation of those he come into contact with -- both in his official ministry and in his personal life... He is a witness to transcendence both in what he is and what he does... The priest is an alter Christus, another Christ. Msgr. Josemaria Escriva put it this way: "What is the identity of the priest? It is the identity of Christ himself."..."By definition a priest is one who offers sacrifice. The Catholic Church teaches that the Mass is a sacrifice; it is, in a mystical sense, a re-presentation of the identical sacrifice that Jesus made of himself on the altar of the Cross on Calvary almost 2000 years ago...
I suspect if we Protestants had said half these outrageous statements, we'd be criticized as malcontents who misunderstand and misstate the RCC and the magisterium.
Not according to the link I posted in #46 written in an RC publication by a RC priest, author and apologist --
"Orders produce an ontological or real change in the one ordained."
Hard to argue this..
A small church I attended had a situation where there was something odd and they swept it under the Rug, I was pretty peeved. Another Church I attended had something happened which was not criminal, nor was it physically sexual, but it was inappropriate.
The Church went right to the congregation and told them in as much detail as is appropriate something happened and removed the pastor suspending him indefinitely only allowing him to consider returning after completing years of spiritual counseling.
You're welcome. While far from perfect, I find it makes for a good "predicter" of what to expect in the areas of theology, eschatology, apologetics, worship, and culture, once you've identified what church/group a particular person belongs to.
That is not enough, a smart church will not have youth pastors act with mixed gender crowds without their spouse and will never be alone with someone of the opposite gender in that age group (his wife can take care of that).
I am aware in my life of two incidents one was criminal and was reported to police and the other was not criminal and the pastor in question was removed from the ministry.
What we don't know can hurt us. And it can definitely hurt our children.
One father of a child who was sexually molested is so hurt and angry he loses his faith entirely. He's a broken man. The shell-shocked mother collapses in a heap of guilt because she did not see the evil at her doorstep, but instead invited it in to spend nights with her family.
After watching this DVD, no one can say they weren't warned.
When a perp has been reported to the police the charge becomes part of overall stats for that type of crime. It’s difficult to collect data related to the specific catagory of “protestant official” from that.
There’s no way to know if the police were notified about all perps on the Baptist General Convention of Texas’ list or not. Considering liability issues, I’d think that BGCoT would be wise to have reported every single case to the police. A list to collect data, so they can form policy or so a perp can’t just pick up & move to greener pastures within their group would be a different matter.
Makes me wonder if the Scouts keep a central list or the Department of Education for all teachers who’ve been reported. Can’t say that I’ve ever seen anything like that published.
Forgive me for suspecting your "sympathy" is Crocodile tears.
Thank you for posting that marvelous article!
In fact, I think I’ll start a thread with it.
God’s richest blessings to you!
That's how most Protestant congregations work. Safeguards are built into the system, as Christ instructed His church to be made up of watchful elders and a presbyterian system of checks and balances.
Any offending ministers are removed from the pulpit. In contrast, the RCC shuffles pedophiles around from parish to parish, permitting them to continue their terrible sins against God and children.
Alex,
I also thank you for that breakdown. I’ll try to start using it in my conversation.
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