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To: ichabod1
Sometimes I have to stop and think about a single line of that prayer. It’s anything but mindless repitition.

That is one thing that the article is stating. The prayer, in of itself, is a tremendous catechesis.

Did you realize that the final 100 paragraphs of the Catechism of the Catholic Church is written around that prayer? Just a little trivia for you there...

I should say, if you’re mindlessly repeating it, you might as well sit down and have a coke - you’re wasting time.

I sort of agree with you, but not exactly. The repeated words, in of themselves, do not accomplish anything of themselves (they are not an incantation), but...

As an example, my family prays the blessing before every meal: Bless us, O Lord, and these thy gifts which we are about to receive from thy bounty, through Christ our Lord. Amen.

You're absolutely right that those words have little or no meaning in of themselves. But think about the catechesis behind those words:

Do we go through that little catechesis every night? No. Have we gone through it? Yes. Do we take long and forever praying that each night? No. Do those things (at least part of them) come to mind as we pray that? Yes, certainly.

And that is my point: if you take a few minutes and consider what it is that you're praying, you will mentally call to mind these things as you pray that verbal prayer. You will certainly turn your eyes to God when you do so.

That, in of itself, has value.

But, again, the words, in of themselves, if they are simply prayed without thought, without consideration, without turning your mind and heart toward God, are not going to have meaning.

41 posted on 06/18/2007 9:30:04 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus CINO-RINO GRAZIE NO)
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To: markomalley; ichabod1
if they are simply prayed without thought, without consideration, without turning your mind and heart toward God, are not going to have meaning

Honestly, unless one is repeating words in a foreign language of which one has no knowledge (as, for example, I could sing a song in memorized Gaelic, with no idea what the words meant), then it seems impossible for the use of the words to have no connection at all to the contemplation of the meaning and intention.

Yes, one's mind can drift, but even to begin saying the Our Father, one had to have the intention of raising the heart and mind to "Our Father, who are in Heaven."

48 posted on 06/18/2007 11:38:33 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.)
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To: markomalley

I don’t disagree with you at all. I was really addressing those who object to rote prayers. Praying the Rosary is another way to do it. You don’t stop and think about each word every time you say it. Sometimes the mind drifts away, then you bring it back. Over the course of saying the Our Father what, 35 times or something, you DO end up meditating on the meaning of each clause.

I think a little pause before and after the meal blessing to ponder the meaning is nice. I prefer it to the holding hands and endless freeform by the “best pray-er” at the table. I find free-form prayer to be self-indulgent and redundant. I also find the hand-holding to be “gay”, not necessarily homosexual, but unwanted contact that doesn’t come about organically, but is ordered by someone else.

That’s why I don’t like “The Peace” very much. Forcing people to have physical contact with strangers that they don’t want to contact is not only non-scriptural, it’s unpleasant and makes some people not want to come to church. Not that people aren’t welcome to contact each other any time they want! I just don’t like it coerced. I feel like I need to wash my hands after. I take communion on the tongue now, so I don’t have to worry about touching the Host, but I used to.

My best buddy in the choir and I have taken to doing an ancient peace passing. We face each other and do a significant (but not profound) bow. Then we sort of smirk because we feel a little bit naughty, I’m not sure why.


55 posted on 06/18/2007 4:39:32 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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