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To: Mrs. Don-o
Pretty clearly this is a package deal, not an either/or....So if Mary got them into the Church, she got them into the Word.

It's not "pretty clear" and I strongly believe this is an absolutely wrong interpretation. To say it's a "package deal" is nothing more that a Co-Redemptix view and assumes God was incapable of bringing our Lord Jesus into the world any other way; that God needed help to bring about the birth of Christ. I would not make that "assumption". I think God can be a bit creative when He wants to be.

There is nothing in scripture that parades Mary around after the death of Christ. The apostles don't even mention her. Clearly if Mary was so significant to attracting followers then one wonders why there wasn't more history about a church that she started.

And if you go to the Basilica of Guadalupe (or any other Catholic church) you can't help but notice ...

How many Catholic churches have you been in overseas? I have been to quite a few. Nothing personal but I find Catholic churches in Third World countries border on the occult.

43 posted on 06/18/2007 4:17:29 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: HarleyD
"To say it's a "package deal" ... assumes God was incapable of bringing our Lord Jesus into the world any other way;"

You seem to prefer the ways God might have brought Our Lord to this earth, to the way He did bring Him. Knowing that God is unsurpassable in judgment, I'd be inclined to say that the way He did do it was the way of greatest wisdom and excellence, for His purpose and glory. And that was that God freely and willfully chose to save human beings with the consent of a human being: Mary of Nazareth.

"To say it's a "package deal" is nothing more that a Co-Redemptix view"

Depends what you mean by that. If you mean Mary is equal to Jesus, the answer is a big NO. If you mean that Mary cooperated in Jesus' incarnation and therefore our redemption, the answer is a big YES. We all cooperate in redemption, as Mary did: by saying Yes through the power of the Holy Spirit.

"Clearly if Mary was so significant to attracting followers then one wonders why there wasn't more history about a church that she started."

John 21:25
Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

The fact that something wasn't written in Scriptures doesn't mean it didn't exist or didn't happen. If that were the case, there would be no Reformed Christianity, especially in America: to start with, because "Reformed," "Christianity," and "America" are not in the Bible.

God is sovereignly free to employ His mother, or anybody else, as a messenger whenever and wherever and for whatever purpose He pleases. All by His grace, all by the work of the Holy Spirit.

As for your observations of Third World Catholicism: the Bible --- straight Scripture, read, proclaimed, and sung --- is the first half of every Mass. The second half is eating His body and drinking His blood. As we were commanded to do.

56 posted on 06/19/2007 5:43:48 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (The Bible tells me so.)
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