Posted on 06/28/2007 7:33:54 PM PDT by tnarg
Please don’t lump the eems in with Deacons and especially Nuns. Deacons go to years of training in seminary before being ordained and Nuns have made a lifetime comittment to the church.
Hello,
Married Men can be Ordained Deacons, but they shy away from Ordaining married men in the Latin Rite. Among the obvious practical reasons: such as increased Salaries, 24 hr availability and the like there are several Theological Reasons, such as the ancient Jewish Purity requirements.
While I don’t know if it is still enforced, (one of the myriad of reasons) Celibacy developed in the Latin Rite because Clergy were required to abstain from relations for a period of time prior to confecting the Eucharist (kind of like the old pre-V2 midnight Fast) and as the custom of daily Liturgy Developed it became basically impossible (or I would hope undesirable) for a married man to maintain this abstinence.
I fully support a Celibate presbyterate but there are many “Chancery jobs” that married Priests could fill, especially since they need not say their own personal Mass daily.
This is overall a good discussion to have, but the Permanent Deacon argument doesn’t hold water, as it is a seperate and distinct Vocation.
Most of the nuns involved in running parishes want to be priests, and so, alas, do most of the deacons (or at least they want to get up and preach). It’s true that most of the EEMs don’t.
My point, however, was that bishops of no-vocation dioceses have that situation because they think that the priest is actually no different from the deacon or the sister, not to mention the EEM, and this is the message they give to the priests by “replacing” them with nuns and deacons (and EEMs).
146. There can be no substitute whatsoever for the ministerial Priesthood. For if a Priest is lacking in the community, then the community lacks the exercise and sacramental function of Christ the Head and Shepherd, which belongs to the essence of its very life. For the only minister who can confect the sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest.
151. Only out of true necessity is there to be recourse to the assistance of extraordinary ministers in the celebration of the Liturgy. Such recourse is not intended for the sake of a fuller participation of the laity but rather, by its very nature, is supplementary and provisional. Furthermore, when recourse is had out of necessity to the functions of extraordinary ministers, special urgent prayers of intercession should be multiplied that the Lord may soon send a Priest for the service of the community and raise up an abundance of vocations to sacred Orders.
154. As has already been recalled, “the only minister who can confect the Sacrament of the Eucharist in persona Christi is a validly ordained Priest”. Hence the name “minister of the Eucharist” belongs properly to the Priest alone. Moreover, also by reason of their sacred Ordination, the ordinary ministers of Holy Communion are the Bishop, the Priest and the Deacon, to whom it belongs therefore to administer Holy Communion to the lay members of Christ’s faithful during the celebration of Mass. In this way their ministerial office in the Church is fully and accurately brought to light, and the sign value of the Sacrament is made complete.
156. This function is to be understood strictly according to the name by which it is known, that is to say, that of extraordinary minister of Holy Communion, and not “special minister of Holy Communion” nor “extraordinary minister of the Eucharist” nor “special minister of the Eucharist”, by which names the meaning of this function is unnecessarily and improperly broadened.
157. If there is usually present a sufficient number of sacred ministers for the distribution of Holy Communion, extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion may not be appointed. Indeed, in such circumstances, those who may have already been appointed to this ministry should not exercise it. The practice of those Priests is reprobated who, even though present at the celebration, abstain from distributing Communion and hand this function over to laypersons.
158. Indeed, the extraordinary minister of Holy Communion may administer Communion only when the Priest and Deacon are lacking, when the Priest is prevented by weakness or advanced age or some other genuine reason, or when the number of faithful coming to Communion is so great that the very celebration of Mass would be unduly prolonged. This, however, is to be understood in such a way that a brief prolongation, considering the circumstances and culture of the place, is not at all a sufficient reason.
I like for Nuns to have opportunities because I want to young women to see it as an attractive option for themselves. But I have to agree with you about the wannabe priests — that’s the thinking we have to get away from. I’m reminded of what Paul said about we are one body with many members, and how can you say an arm is better than a leg, but what good does it do for a finger to suddenly decide it would rather be an eye?
and Jesus wasnt a shepherd, teacher, exhorter, consoler? and you refer to the catholic church as "man made?" How so? I think the protestand church is more man made with its sola scriptura(which I am still trying to find in the Bible).
Yes. It's purely intentional. The doctrine of Sola Scriptura, by the virtue of not being provable solely by Scripture, is contradictory.
As a side note, in my opinion it isn't quite that simple to brush off Sola Scriptura, even though I do reject it.
I dont see how I am invoking SS. Besides, Martin Luther came up with the idea of SS.
Sinkspur, is that you?
Martin Luther was a schizophrenic, paranoid drunk who couldn’t control his libido and told his folllowers to “sin boldly.” You gonna tout that as well?
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OK, hold up there a minute, I see no problem whatsoever with altar girls, if there can be female ministers of the word and female eucharistic ministers, then what on earth is wrong with altar girls?
I think the problem with altar girls is that when there are altar girls, then boys tend to not be so eager to serve as altar boys. In the past, some of those altar boys, grew up to be Priests. With the introduction of girls, I think it has diminished what in the past was a role in which boys could think about the Priesthood.
i read a while ago on FR about catholics in nigeria who WALK up to 8 hours one way to go to mass. If catholics can;t be bothered DRIVING a few km’s further than usual to go to mass then they deserve having nuns running their parish.
the biggest thing that discourages me from (and i am sure many other guys) from considering priesthood (as a Novus Ordo priest anyway) are ALTAR GIRLS!!!! Its a job for guys only. Its like going hunting, or playing NFL with a girl- it’s just something you DON’T do.
you see all those bad statistics about why people like ME aren’t answering the call, well i am telling you.
besides, its in canon law that girls can only serve if there are no guys available.
“The number of priests is declining?”
This is inaccurate.
“According to the ("Annuario Pontificio") yearbook newly compiled stats for the years between 2004 and 2005, the number of Catholics increasing in the world from 1,098 million to 1,115 million, a growth of 1.5 percent.”
2007 edition “Annuario Pontificio,”
http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?id=7895&t=Number+of+world's+Catholic+priests+grows+slightly
And I know I will probably be flamed for this but I am against all these “Eucharistic ministers” distributing Holy Communion. If it takes an additional ten or fifteen minutes for the priest to distribute Holy Communion then so be it.
Flame on, I have my asbestos PJ’s on. LOL
Happy Saturday, ya’ll.
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