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Pope allows wider use of Latin mass
Yahoo! News (AFP) ^ | 7/7/2007 | Martine Nouaille

Posted on 07/07/2007 11:18:03 AM PDT by Pyro7480

VATICAN CITY (AFP) - Pope Benedict XVI gave the go-ahead Saturday for greater use of the old Latin mass, signalling a bid to heal a decades-old split in the Roman Catholic Church.

But the move, which also applies to other religious rituals, is controversial and leading figures have already expressed misgivings.

A papal decree said priests should now meet requests by the faithful to hold mass in the traditional Church language, which had widely been dropped after the Second Vatican Council in the 1960s.

"In parishes where there is a stable group of faithful who adhere to the earlier liturgical tradition, the pastor should willingly accept their request to celebrate the Mass according to the rite of the Roman Missal published in 1962...," said the decree.

"The pastor, having attentively examined all aspects, may also grant permission to use the earlier ritual for the administration of the Sacraments of Baptism, Marriage, Penance and the Anointing of the Sick, if the good of souls would seem to require it," it added.

The virtual abandonment of the Tridentine mass after the Second Vatican Council in 1965 was one of the causes of a breakaway led by French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in 1970.

The move was to encourage the greater use of the mass in local languages, one of a series of reforms made by the council in a bid to modernise the Church.

Traditionalists say the Tridentine mass, named after the town of Trento, now in northern Italy, is more spiritual and historically authentic than the modern version.

French bishops secretly approached the pope late last year to voice their concerns about his then apparent readiness to revive the Tridentine mass.

Cardinal Jean-Pierre Ricard, chairman of the French bishops' conference, said in November that differences with followers of Lefebvre were not only liturgical, but also theological, dealing with religious freedom, ecumenism, inter-religious dialogue and politics.

He warned Saturday that the pope's "real motivations may not be well understood" by the public and the priests, but he did not expect many requests for traditional mass.

"I don't see a tsunami coming," he said.

Lefebvre's followers hailed the pope's decision, adding however that other difficulties remained.

The Priestly Society of Saint Pius X, in a statement from Lefebvre's successor Bernard Fellay, said it "rejoices to see the Church ... regain her liturgical Tradition, and give the possibility of a free access to the treasure of the Traditional Mass for the glory of God, the good of the Church and the salvation of souls, to the priests and faithful who had so far been deprived of it."

The favorable climate established by the decree should make it "possible -- after the decree of excommunication which still affects (the society's) bishops has been withdrawn -- to consider more serenely the disputed doctrinal issues," the association added in the statement posted on its website.

The pope opened a dialogue with Lefebvre's followers in August 2005, four months after he was elected as head of the Roman Catholic Church, by receiving Fellay.

Prior to his death in April 2005, Benedict's predecessor John Paul II sought to bring traditionalists back into the Roman Catholic fold, allowing the celebration of the Tridentine mass so long as it was conducted only by bishops.

In a separate letter to the bishops, Benedict said he was motivated by a need to reconcile worshippers as it had become "apparent that a good number of people remained strongly attached to this usage of the Roman Rite which had been familiar to them from childhood.

"This was especially the case in countries where the liturgical movement had provided many people with a notable liturgical formation and a deep personal familiarity with the earlier form of the liturgical celebration.

"We all know that, in the movement led by archbishop Lefebvre, fidelity to the old Missal became an external mark of identity; the reasons for the break which arose over this, however, were at a deeper level."

The pope asked bishops to report back to the Vatican three years after the new decree takes effect on September 14.

"If truly serious difficulties come to light, ways to remedy them can be sought," he said.

Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi insisted Saturday that the choice given to priests did not mean that the Church was taking a step back.

"Benedict XVI does not mean to revolutionise today's liturgy which was updated by the Second Vatican Council, as it will continue to be followed by a large majority of worshippers," he said.

"He does not impose a step back, he wants no weakening of the Council authority or of the authority and responsibility of bishops."

And Cardinal Dario Castrillon Hoyos, head of the Vatican commission which speaks to the dissidents, said they should recognise the validity of the more modern mass.

The Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal Centre meanwhile criticised Benedict's decision, as the old Latin mass included a prayer for the conversion of Jews.

The centre asked Benedict "to declare this text contrary to the current teaching of the Church, in accordance with the Second Vatican Council".


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: benedictxvi; catholic; latinmass; liturgy; mass; motuproprio; pope; traditionalmass; tridentine; tridentinemass; vatican
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Monsignor Ignacio Barreiro Carambula celebrates the Latin Tridentine mass in St. Giuseppe a Capo le Case church in central Rome, 01 July 2007. Pope Benedict XVI has given the go-ahead for greater use of the old Latin mass, signalling a bid to heal a decades-old split in the Roman Catholic Church.(AFP/File/Alberto Pizzoli)
1 posted on 07/07/2007 11:18:05 AM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; Desdemona; ...

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 07/07/2007 11:18:37 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("Jesu, Jesu, Jesu, esto mihi Jesus" -St. Ralph Sherwin's last words at Tyburn)
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To: Pyro7480

“The Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal Centre meanwhile criticised Benedict’s decision, as the old Latin mass included a prayer for the conversion of Jews.”

I’m excited about this, but I am a little torn about the above. I’d like to hear what others have to say.


3 posted on 07/07/2007 11:32:00 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

What’s wrong with praying for their conversion? We believe we have the fullness of faith, and it would be downright evil not to pray for them.

In addition, there is still a prayer for the Jews in the Good Friday liturgy (as well as a prayer for the conversion of pagans and unbelievers, etc.). Simon Wiesenthal and Abe Foxman are looking for something where there is nothing and trying to stir up their usual left-wing trouble.

There was nothing in the 1962 Missal that was offensive, and even the phrase they didn’t like in the earlier Missal was basically misunderstood and was in any case removed from the 1962 Missal.


4 posted on 07/07/2007 11:43:15 AM PDT by livius
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To: sageb1

well since I left the church as a child during the Vatican II implementation I saw little of English mass, only remember latin mass. and don’t care to convert jewish people. this faith has enough trouble with its’ latino members.


5 posted on 07/07/2007 11:44:57 AM PDT by television is just wrong (Amnesty is when you allow them to return to their country of origin without prosecution.)
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To: livius

“What’s wrong with praying for their conversion? We believe we have the fullness of faith, and it would be downright evil not to pray for them.”

Thanks. That is my feeling as well. I have a lot of conservative Jewish friends who know I pray for them in secret. They don’t seem to like me any less. ;)


6 posted on 07/07/2007 11:46:55 AM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: sageb1

All we need to do is go back to the Good Friday readings on THIS site to debunk this claim about praying for the Jews. It has always been there! LOL!


7 posted on 07/07/2007 12:20:34 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: sageb1

Good Friday has the Passion (as does Palm Sunday)

But I was referring to the prayers said during the Easter Vigil. My error.


8 posted on 07/07/2007 12:40:47 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: sageb1
The Church prayed for the conversion of the Jews since St. John the Baptist:

he shall convert many of the children of Israel to the Lord their God. (Luke 1:16)

And Jesus answered him: The first commandment of all is, Hear, O Israel: the Lord thy God is one God (Mark 12:29)

let all the house of Israel know most certainly, that God hath made both Lord and Christ, this same Jesus, whom you have crucified. (Acts 2:36)

20 But to them first that are at Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and unto all the country of Judea, and to the Gentiles did I preach, that they should do penance, and turn to God, doing works worthy of penance. 21 For this cause the Jews, when I was in the temple, having apprehended me, went about to kill me. (Acts 26)


9 posted on 07/07/2007 12:47:19 PM PDT by annalex
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To: annalex

You’re right, of course, (as is Salvation). I guess I just get tired of hearing Foxman et al, use it as an excuse for his constant rhetoric and complaints. Robert Spencer has been “Blogging the Qur’an” over at Hot Air (and doing an excellent job). There are posters who attempt to equate Islamic supremacism with Christians trying to convert Jews and it’s not the same thing at all.


10 posted on 07/07/2007 12:53:48 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Pyro7480
The Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal Centre meanwhile criticised Benedict's decision, as the old Latin mass included a prayer for the conversion of Jews.

It's best to simply ignore the perpetually offended.

11 posted on 07/07/2007 1:06:31 PM PDT by Hacksaw (Appalachian by the grace of God! Montani Semper Liberi)
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To: sageb1
"I’m excited about this, but I am a little torn about the above. I’d like to hear what others have to say."

I'm happy about the whole thing, and I don't care what anybody says about Good Friday Mass mentioning a prayer for the conversion of Jews, pagans, heretics and schismatics. Neither should you. Praying for the souls of non-believers is a major, major part of our Catholic faith.

In any case, as Saint Augustine wrote: "Roma Locuta Est – Causa Finita Est" ("Rome has spoken, the case is closed").

12 posted on 07/07/2007 1:10:52 PM PDT by gemma0000 (They obscure the truth by calling it an issue of "immigration"-but it's an issue of LAW ENFORCEMENT.)
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To: Pyro7480

felicissimus bumpus ad summum (esp. about Art. 9)


13 posted on 07/07/2007 1:11:44 PM PDT by Dajjal
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To: sageb1; annalex
Foxman and the rest of this gang get their funding, publicity, and their kicks from stirring up trouble. In another context:

"There is another class of colored people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs -- partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do not want to lose their jobs....There is a certain class of race-problem solvers who do not want the patient to get well, because as long as the disease holds out they have not only an easy means of making a living, but also an easy medium through which to make themselves prominent before the public."

- Booker T. Washington

Of course I pray for my Jewish friends, as well as for my Protestant friends, my LDS friends, and my friends with no religion at all. If I truly believe in my religion, and that it is the right one, then OF COURSE I must pray for the conversion of those who haven't received the fulness of truth, because I wish them well and want them to enjoy the benefits as well! And since Jesus Himself was a Jew, we have a special duty to wish His brethren by blood all the good in the world, since we are merely His brethren by adoption, as St. Paul says.

14 posted on 07/07/2007 1:26:28 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: livius
What’s wrong with praying for their conversion? We believe we have the fullness of faith, and it would be downright evil not to pray for them.

**************

I agree. I have the utmost respect for Judaism, as I was taught that the Jews were the chosen people. Never did I hear or was I taught anything negative about them or their religion. Still, it cannot be ignored that Christ brought a new message to us. It is through love that we share that message with our Jewish brothers and sisters.

15 posted on 07/07/2007 1:47:59 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Pyro7480; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; ..
"I don't see a tsunami coming," he said.

As Raymond Arroyo's guest last night stated, this is more like the shift of a tectonic plate. It will be gradual, which is as it should be.

Lefebvre's followers hailed the pope's decision, adding however that other difficulties remained. The Priestly Society of Saint Pius X, in a statement from Lefebvre's successor Bernard Fellay, said it "rejoices to see the Church ... regain her liturgical Tradition, and give the possibility of a free access to the treasure of the Traditional Mass for the glory of God, the good of the Church and the salvation of souls, to the priests and faithful who had so far been deprived of it."

Arroyo's guest also addressed the SSPX and suggested that this was Pope Benedict XVI's response to them. The issues that separate the SSPX from the Catholic Church extend beyond the Latin Mass. However, the ball is now in their court insofar as reconciliation, the Latin Mass being one of the major hurdles.

16 posted on 07/07/2007 4:09:05 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Pyro7480; monkapotamus; ELS; Theophane; indult; St. Johann Tetzel; B Knotts; livius; k omalley; ...

Tridentine Ping List!

Freepmail Frank Sheed if you want  ON/OFF  this list!

To find posts to this Ping List, just search Keyword: "Tridentine"

Disclaimer: The post made herewith is for the purposes of information and discussion only and is not to be interpreted, read, or construed as intended to induce, invite, cajole, compel, or influence in any manner whatsoever any person of whatever Confession reading the aforesaid post or participating in the aforesaid discussion to join, attend, inquire, contemplate, believe, or concur with the Roman Catholic Church or any of the other 22 (twenty-two) Rites of the Church aforesaid. The party/ies posting disclaim, reject, and abjure responsibility to said persons, Free Republic, and/or its Moderators for any Acts of God by which the Holy Spirit or another Person of the Holy Trinity induces, persuades, or influences the persons aforesaid to seek such information on their own accord through Divine Intervention or by the process hereby denominated "sanctifying grace." The party/ies posting warrant that this is not his/her responsibility or intent and arises from a Power that cannot be controlled by him or her in this life or hereafter. This disclaimer cannot be revoked as it is not governed by the civil or criminal, statutory or common law of the United States of America or any other governmental entity and is the sole responsibility of Divine Intervention.

17 posted on 07/07/2007 4:13:16 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: NYer; Frank Sheed
http://www.dici.org/

Press Release from the General Superior of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X

By the Motu Proprio Summorum Pontificum, Pope Benedict XVI has reinstated the Tridentine Mass in its rights, and clearly affirmed that the Roman Missal promulgated by Saint Pius V had never been abrogated. The Priestly Society of Saint Pius X rejoices to see the Church thus regain her liturgical Tradition, and give the possibility of a free access to the treasure of the Traditional Mass for the glory of God, the good of the Church and the salvation of souls, to the priests and faithful who had so far been deprived of it. The Priestly Society of Saint Pius X extends its deep gratitude to the Sovereign Pontiff for this great spiritual benefit.

The letter which accompanies the Motu Proprio does not hide however the difficulties that still remain. The Society of Saint Pius X wishes that the favorable climate established by the new dispositions of the Holy See will make it possible – after the decree of excommunication which still affects its bishops has been withdrawn – to consider more serenely the disputed doctrinal issues.

Lex orandi, lex credendi, the law of the liturgy is that of the faith. In the fidelity to the spirit of our founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the attachment of the Society of Saint Pius X to the traditional liturgy is inseparably united to the faith which has been professed "always, everywhere and by all."

 

Menzingen, July 7, 2007

Bishop Bernard Fellay


18 posted on 07/07/2007 4:14:41 PM PDT by monkapotamus
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To: All
But the move, which also applies to other religious rituals, is controversial and leading figures have already expressed misgivings.

Now class, remember to look up the TLM talking points that came out recently since the MSM is now discussing Pope Benedict XVI, (a former member of the Hitler Youth), as predicted only yesterday.

An American Mother will be sure to keep things honest. She can sling the Deutsch!

A toute a l'heure!

Monsieur Sheed va a la beech du Nord Caroline!

19 posted on 07/07/2007 4:18:35 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: All

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1861198/posts?page=10#10

MSM routine take on the results of today...


20 posted on 07/07/2007 4:27:03 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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