A Question Of Hell (One Minister Questions Its Existence)

Whoever put “fundamentalist” in the KEYWORDS either doesn’t know who
Carlton Pearson is today.

Or was thinking he was still fundamentalist Christian...which he
is NOT!

Perhaps those who love God experience love, those who hate God experience it as torment.

God being the same, the experience determined by the individuals will and intent.

Personally, I don't really see how it's possible to reconcile the concept of an all-powerful, all-loving, life-creating God with the traditional concept of hell (=conscious eternal torment).

The eternal nature of hell is stressed in the New Testament. For example, in Mark 9:47–48 Jesus warns us, "[I]t is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into hell, where the worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." And in Revelation 14:11, we read: "And the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever; and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name."

Hell is not just a theoretical possibility. Jesus warns us that real people go there. He says, "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few" (Matt. 7:13–14).

Who, according to your doctrine, created hell? And for what purpose?

Hell is not a created "place". God, who is total goodness and love, and created ALL things, could not conceivably create a "place" of evil. Not geographically speaking. So, God did not create hell.

And for what purpose?

God's purpose was that all would enjoy eternal heaven. Since man tends to give God the finger and do whatever he wants, most of us won't be enjoying the beatific vision in the afterlife.

What is the mechanism by which people arrive in hell? You claim that God doesn't send people to hell. Is there a mechanism, completely independent of God, whereby people die and simply slide into hell, unless they are rescued by God?

Repeating, hell is not a "place" in the sense of, "it's down the hall and to the left". Hell is the condition of the soul who, because of its irreparable evil deeds and disposition, agonizes in the presence of God's radiant, burning love. The condemned soul recognizes its own total failure in doing the will of God, and burns in agony over those who are enjoying eternal joy, and in regret over its own folly. This soul, by its own condition, is eternally blocked from the warmth of God's love. Therefore, God does not "send" anyone to hell. The choices we make here determine our response to God at our judgment.

Finally, let's take for granted that a person's winding up in hell is due to his or her choices. But who created that person? Is God then powerless to avoid creating people who are going to end up in hell? And if he is not powerless to avoid creating people who are going to end up in hell, then why does he create them?

Creation was God's total act of self-giving (love). This total act of self-giving would be worthless if it did not grant to the receiver of that love the free will to accept or reject. Would you prefer to be loved by your spouse/girlfriend by your own manipulation, or by her own free will? Love can never be "imposed" on anyone who does not want it, and thus, man had the choice of either directing his love back to the One who created him, or directing that love to the one created - and worse, to the first who rejected the love of God, Satan. Man lived in total happiness and assent with God's will. But through his own misplaced pride, wished instead to become his own god.

This Original Sin has eternal consequence, since it did eternal harm to man's relationship with God. Therefore, this condition of sin passes from generation to generation. Mankind was doomed to eternal separation from God - that is - until eternal reparation could be made for the sin of Adam. And the only one who could bring the scales of eternal justice back to par is the One who is not guilty of that Original Sin, who is God, Jesus Christ. Only the atonement of the "spotless Lamb" could rectify in eternity this break with God. Now that "it is accomplished", Jesus is the eternal sacrifice whom each man or woman who is in sin (that's all of us) can offer to the Father in appeasement of our sins. Those who refuse this mercy, those who continue to choose to be their own gods - for a perceived good or an intended evil - will suffer the pain of that eternal separation which they choose to retain by not participating in the offering of the Son's sacrifice to the Father.

Thus, "hell" - the eternal pain of sin - exists totally at man's assent, not God's. The soul is eternal. It can't be "annihilated" because it was created in a place where time does not exist.

If he is not able to control whether people burn in unbelievably painful, excruciating, screaming torment forever and ever without end, then he is not all-powerful.

God's total act of self-giving including giving man power to choose his end. Is a robotic, puppet-like existence any more worthy of having?

If he is able to do something about this and does not, then it would certainly appear that he is as evil as the worst demon from hell, because he chooses to inflict upon people (or at least, to allow the inflicting upon people) the most hideous of eternal, unending torments.

He DID do something. He sacrificed His ONLY SON! If you or anyone else freely choose to reject that, then why is God to blame? If someone rejects this ultimate act of self-sacrifice, who's the evil one? It seems to me He's given mankind an incredible "Get out of Jail Free" card. It's up to you and I to play it. What's wrong or unjust about that?

Decent enough responses, on the whole. One brief and reasonable (and reflective of something Lewis once wrote), one dodging the problem entirely, and one that took a serious stab at answering some hard questions.

I do note this:

One person didn't attempt to address the questions, which says to me that he or she doesn't know a way to work it out, either.

And the two who did answer, answered with something that does not sound quite exactly like the traditional conception of hell.

Someone earlier in the thread quoted the tale of the rich man and Lazarus.

I can't really think, offhand, of another of Jesus' stories, that people take literally. In other words, they don't read the story of the sower, or the story of the ten talents, or the story of the virgins, or the story of the owner of the vineyard who sent his son as a messenger, and believe that Jesus is telling a literal story that literally and historically happened, with literal and historical people. Generally, they're parables.

Yet most people seem to take the Lazarus story as literal and historical. Perhaps it's because he used a specific name: "Lazarus."

Interestingly, whoever contributed to the wikipedia article on Sheol thinks the story of Lazarus and the rich man refers to a temporary place where the righteous are comforted and the unrighteous are tormented while awaiting the final judgment. This story, then, wouldn't actually refer to the idea of an eternal hell, but to something temporary:

By the first century, Jews had come to believe that those in sheol awaited the resurrection either in comfort (in the bosom of Abraham) or in torment. This belief is reflected in Jesus' story of Lazarus and Dives.

Like just about anything theological, it quickly gets complicated. But as far as I can see, I haven't been able to find a way to really reconcile the idea of an all-powerful, all-loving, all-merciful, life-creating God with an unending, permanent, no-possible-way-out, "you're damned and damned forever," conscious eternal torment kind of hell.

Time gets in the way. If you were an angel in eternity and fell from grace, that was your one shot. At least in this life we have what time we're allotted to mend our ways. Once you cross over to eternity, that's it. That's the nature of time vs. eternity. I would count myself lucky to be in a position to do something about it.

The torment isn't inflicted by God. The torment is a result of the condition of the soul. If you have an allergy to peanuts and you eat peanuts, your body will have a reaction. It's not the peanuts that are poisonous, but your body, for whatever reason, can't stand its composition. The unrepentant soul that refuses the mercy of God suffers the total loss of good, and so, can't stand the presence of God. It's the worst pain imaginable. Total darkness. Not God's fault, since He gave us everything we need to save us from ourselves. If you or I choose not to accept His mercy out of pride or selfishness or what-have-you, then we get what we deserve, no? I mean, how much easier can it get, and what, exactly, does God OWE us in the first place?

Good grief. Some tubehead buckles and decides to go with the flow of cultural opinion, and that’s breaking news.

I’d rather think the opposite would be the case. But then, that’s not in sync with the media narrative (defecting Christians, defecting Republicans, whatever).

I’d recommend the chapter on hell by in C.S. Lewis’ book The Problem of Pain, I think it would answer your questions.

Put it another way: Salt does not sting. Salt is properly a wonderful spice and preservative. But to the open wound, salt is the enemy. No one says, "salt is evil - let's get rid of all the salt in the world because to the wounded, it brings great pain." Salt, in and of itself, causes no pain whatsoever. The body perceives pain when it is in a condition not to receive it.

Similarly, God does not torment. God is love. But to the unrepentant soul, goodness and love (God) are its torment. Ever hear the phrase, "kill 'em with kindness?" Try showing love to your enemies and watch what happens - they will either recognize their error and make amends and have great happiness with you, or they will suffer greatly by your charity.

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Book Description
What is hell like, and how does one avoid an eternity of torment? Bill Wiese shares his unforgettable experience during which God allowed him to see and feel the agony people endure in hell.

Wiese's visit to the devil's lair lasted just twenty-three minutes, but he returned from this with vivid details etched in his memory. He records an accurate account of his experience in this book, presenting more than three hundred scriptures that verify the horrors he endured and observed.

From the Author
"Even if you don't believe my story, you should believe these Bible verses and avoid hell just the same. To me, it doesn't matter what causes you to understand the truth as long as it sinks in. My sincere hope is that this book is the closest you will ever come to experiencing hell for yourself," Wiese writes.

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Not much different than what Mormonism teaches.......

Your love, Lord, reaches to heaven;
your truth to the skies.
Your justice is like God’s mountain,
your judgements like the deep.

This has been turned into one of my favorite worship songs. Third Day does an excellent version. Here's one rendition on Youtube. The original vid.

No Hell? Heresy! The next thing you know, he’ll be denying the existence of Limbo, Heaven, and Purgatory! Or a firmament which divideth the waters which are under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament (hence: the source of rain)?

On a more-serious note: Can anyone tell me why God doesn’t simply ANNIHILATE those imprisoned in Hell, rather than allowing them to suffer eternal torment? And couldn’t a soul in Hell repent and receive forgiveness? Why should God, like a cosmic croupier, say “rien ne va plus” at the moment of death, and not acknowledge any subsequent realizations or regrets?