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To: danneskjold
That if you aren't Catholic, you aren't a proper Christian?

This was never said at all. He said there was One True Church (with a capital "C") and that is the Church that Christ founded, i.e. the Catholic church. No where was it said that people of other denominations are not Christian.

And I strongly disagree with the assertion that anyone can be entitled to life in Heaven. That is presumption of the highest order.

59 posted on 07/10/2007 10:02:22 PM PDT by jddqr
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To: jddqr
This was never said at all.

I disagree...

Direct from the linked article:

It said the branches of Christianity formed after the split with Rome at the Reformation could not be called churches "in the proper sense" because they broke with a succession of popes who dated back to St Peter.

As a result, it went on, Protestant churches have "no sacramental priesthood", effectively reaffirming the controversial Catholic position that Anglican holy orders are worthless.

The document claimed the Catholic church was the "one true church of Christ". The claims came in a document, from a Vatican watchdog which was approved by the Pope.

He said there was One True Church (with a capital "C") and that is the Church that Christ founded, i.e. the Catholic church. No where was it said that people of other denominations are not Christian.

That's a bit more than simply saying that the Church that Christ founded is the Catholic Church.

And I ask again, why? What is the intent of a statement like this?

64 posted on 07/10/2007 10:18:12 PM PDT by danneskjold
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To: jddqr; xzins; P-Marlowe; dangus; jo kus
He said there was One True Church (with a capital "C") and that is the Church that Christ founded, i.e. the Catholic church. No where was it said that people of other denominations are not Christian.

In point of fact, the Response emphasizes:

"It follows that these separated churches and Communities, though we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church"[12].

Basically, the thrust of the message is this: Protestants don't have Apostolic Succession nor the Sacraments (particularly the Eucharistic Mystery), so they're not, strictly speaking, "Church." The Responses, like the underlying encyclicals, do not imply that we Protestants aren't Christian - it's just that to a Catholic, Apostolic Succession and the Sacraments are the raison d'etre for the Church.

What I find more interesting is that this suggests a little fuzziness around the edges of extra ecclesium nulla salus - you don't, strictly speaking, need to be a communicant in the Roman or Eastern churches to be a Christian. It appears that Rome does recognzize the ecclesial communities as "quasi-churches" at least on this limited question.

No one should think the Roman Catholics are being unfair or unreasonable in this viewpoint. If Apostolic Succession and Sacrementalism **are** accurate, than the Protestant Churches are not "Churches." It is the inevitable conclusion of their central theology - and has a lot more basis in reality than the inadvertent and entirely unsupported conclusion of too many Protestants and Evangelicals that Catholics can't be Christian. ("She's not Christian, she's Catholic" is like fingernails on a chalkboard to me.)

Just my 2 cents worth.

79 posted on 07/11/2007 3:43:35 AM PDT by jude24 (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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