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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
Kosta: Maybe, for starters, you can demonstrate for me those parts of the OT that show Christ in the making. How's that?

"Christ in the making." Now there's a strange way to put it. :)

I've already quoted from homilies by +John Chrysostom that show Christ as the "Lion of Judah" and the "Lamb of God". In addition, here are some considerations from +John of Damascus on baptism and the Sabbath.

13,092 posted on 01/28/2008 9:03:42 PM PST by Zero Sum (Liberalism: The damage ends up being a thousand times the benefit! (apologies to Rabbi Benny Lau))
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To: Zero Sum; Kolokotronis
"Christ in the making." Now there's a strange way to put it.

Why? The full revelation was a gradual process that ended with Christ. Which is why I am not surprised that so many Eastern Churches rejected the Book of Revelation, a kind of Christian "latter-day-saints" phenomenon, and why it had to be included into the canon by bargaining, in exchange for the Book of Hebrews.

I've already quoted from homilies by +John Chrysostom that show Christ as the "Lion of Judah" and the "Lamb of God"

There is no direct quote in the OT that expresses that. You will find hints which can be interpreted many ways (i.e Deut 18: 15) “A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren like unto me, unto Him shall ye hearken,” which is anything but vague vis a vis who this prophet will be, let alone a prophet who is none other than God Himself.

In addition, here are some considerations from +John of Damascus on baptism and the Sabbath.

All these texts are collages of various bits and pieces, cherry-picked to suit the author's purpose. My point is that there is nothing in the Old Testament  that explicitly hints at what the Gospels tell us. All of this is simply retro-engineering after the fact, and it may very well be that what the prophets saw was Christ in their minds but couldn't express it fully, nor did anyone see it at the time when they were written.

The same kind of implicit "prophesy" is seen in Nostradamus. All of it is 20/20 vision after the fact, but no one was predicting Hitler using Nostradamus until Hitler came, or even while he was in power because there is really nothing explicit in Nostradamus' writings; all of it has to be "extrapolated" after the fact.

This type of 'fuzziness' naturally creates varieties of opinions, as some people read into the verses what they want and what they are already predisposed to find. My point is that it all defaults to implication and never to something explicit.

Of course, in retro-vision and with the help of cherry-picked lines, one can construct just about anything. And people have. Sometimes, even the verses were changed (i.e. the"variants") in order to make their job complete!

The west is missing the point: being a Christian is not memorizing the infallible bible but a way of life, and that way of life is found in the Church. We are told that Christ came to fulfill the law and the prophets and that the law and the prophets are love. If God is love then if you can't find love and mercy in what we do, it's not from God.

That is the one thing we can be sure of when we speak of God, because mercy is not found anywhere in nature. We humans are capable of it, but we must learn it from others. It doesn't come to us naturally. Then, if it isn't found in rocks, and plants and animals and even in natural man, perhaps it is not of this world.

13,095 posted on 01/29/2008 7:03:07 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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