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To: Kolokotronis; Zero Sum
The thinking is that these pre-figurings are meaningless in a Christian context, without the reality of the Incarnation

Exactly. It's a one-way mirror. Those on the other side could not see, but we can; that mirror being the Gospels, which are, for the lack of a better word retrovision.

The Gospels are the prism through which we can separate the white light of the Old Testament into its component colors.

The world had to wait for Christ to be able to find Him in the prophets' visions without making sweeping generalizations about the entire OT.

For, there is mercy and love in the OT, but its' not that of the Gospels. The New Testament reminds us that law and the prophets are love [cf Mat 7:12, Mat 22:37-41, Rom 13:10]

The love and mercy of the OT are limited to the Jews. But through Chirst we believe God loves not only the Jews but all of mankind. That message was never discovered in the OT before Christ.

but if the Incarnation is the once for all miracle we believe it is, then that reality could very well lead men to an understanding of scripture which was denied to earlier people

That's what I am trying to say. All the visions and inspirations of the prophest could not predict the extreme humility of Incarnation! The extreme humility of the King of Kings born in unglorious way, becoming a man, to a teen-age unwed Mother. Nor could they foresee that He would be tortured and humniliated by mere humans and put to death for our salvation. No one foresaw a humble (the Calvinsits would say "weak") God.

+Symeon the New Theologian...In the future life the Christian is not examined if he has renounced the whole world for Christ’s love, or if he has distributed his riches to the poor or if he fasted or kept vigil or prayed, or if he wept and lamented for his sins, or if he has done any other good in this life, but he is examined attentively if he has any similitude with Christ, as a son does with his father.”

+Symeon the New Theologian is a gold mine of eye-openers. in his "On Faith," he says "I neither fasted, nor kept all night vigils, nor slept on the bare ground, but—in the words of the Pslamist—I humbled myself and God saved me."

13,097 posted on 01/29/2008 8:20:19 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

***The Gospels are the prism through which we can separate the white light of the Old Testament into its component colors. ***

Amen, dear sir.

I see that this has settled down to a reasonable and lucid discussion. A very pleasing development, if I may say so. The more I am learning here, the more I found out what I still have yet to learn.


13,098 posted on 01/29/2008 8:53:14 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: kosta50; Zero Sum
"+Symeon the New Theologian is a gold mine of eye-openers."

+Symeon the new Theologian is magnificent. It is little wonder that he alone among the saints is often depicted with a mandillora instead of a simple halo. I remember when I first read his homilies, many years ago. It was part of a series of his on the baptism of tears. At the time I thought it was complete hogwash. I've changed a bit since then. :)

"I neither fasted, nor kept all night vigils, nor slept on the bare ground, but—in the words of the Psalmist—I humbled myself and God saved me."

In his humility, by grace, he attained a similitude of Christ, whose "Extreme Humility" is a rebuke to a world which would have its God some sort of divine terrorist.


EXTREME HUMILITY

13,099 posted on 01/29/2008 8:59:27 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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