Posted on 07/31/2007 4:19:37 PM PDT by NYer
| Name of church | Founder | When | Where |
|---|---|---|---|
| Episcopalian | King Henry VIII | 1534 | England |
| Presbyterian | John Knox | 1560 | Scotland |
| Congregationalist | Robert Browne | 1583 | England |
| Baptist | John Smith | 1600 | Holland |
| Methodist | John Wesley | 1739 | England |
| Adventist | William Miller | 1831 | New York |
| Christian Scientist | Mary Baker Eddy | 1879 | Massachusetts |
I realize you have limited years, but do you really believe that the church in Rome was founded before those in Jerusalem, Thessaloniki, Corinth, Antioch, and Damascus??? If you do, I encourage you to diligently reread the new testament.
See post #18. Henry VIII created the Church of England, NOT the ANGLICAN Church.
Well, to be fair, most of the Episcopalians I knew and know are true believers and followers of Jesus Christ too... They aren’t required to hold to the doctrines that their church leadership emits. But they just flat won’t take a stand on anything!
Have you read The Venerable Bede (d. 735)'s Historia Ecclesiastica Gentis Anglorum, the Ecclesiastical History of the English (or as it's sometimes translated, History of the Church and People of England)? He's considered the authoritative early source, and there's not word one about Joseph of Arimathea.
That's because the legend of his founding Glastonbury is very late in origin and all tied up with the political claims of England to be first among the Catholic nations of Europe. There was a very interesting book written about 20 years ago summarizing the claims of England to primacy, I think the title was Our Lady's Dowry. If I recall correctly, these claims started surfacing about the time England got down to some serious warfare with France, some time in the 14th century.
Episcopagan?! BAH!!! Catholics are the only true goddess worshippers in these here parts! (shakes rosary in agitated manner)
Freegards
I didn't make your age, whatever it is, an issue. Why are you? I am not talking about your post #14. I'm talking about what you said in #11. There is one Church of Christ, which was established at Jerusalem. As the Apostles converted people and traveled, the one Church established communities wherever the believers who follow the faith of the Apostles were. While the community in Rome started after the commmunities elsewhere, St. Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, came to Rome to become the leader of the community there. His successors have the same primacy as St. Peter did.
The worldwide Anglican Communion has been unable to discipline or expel the Americans, and it appears at this point that the Anglican Communion as such will cease to exist on or after September 30 of this year.
As a refugee from that dreadful excuse for a church who should have shaken the dust from my sandals long before the consecration of the Bishop of New Hampshire, I am sadly familiar with all the details of the controversy. At least now I am watching the train wreck from a safe vantage point across the Tiber, rather than being in one of the passenger cars.
You'll get no argument from me on your final point -- the ECUSA leadership is trying to please the World, the Flesh, and the Devil.
As for why the Episcopagans have come up in this discussion, they illustrate just exactly what you can get away with by claiming Holy Spirit-guided Scriptural interpretation when there is no authoritative leadership. Without a final arbiter other than the internal promptings of the Spirit, once a particular interpretation reaches critical mass in a denomination, that denomination is off on a wild ride to wherever.
First, I think somebody has missed the Seven Letters to the Seven Churches in Revelation. Were those churches NOT Christ's true churches? Furthermore, the bible is the final authority of Christ's truth, NOT the church doctrine!
Concering the bible as the provable true Word of God, all you have to do is look at what Christ Jesus himself quoted.
There are things interwoven throughtout the scripture that more than prove it's God's word, where do you want to start? You have know idea how good of a question you have asked!!
Oy, weh! (cringing as large heavy rosary strikes her about the head and shoulders)
| Disclaimer: The post made herewith is for the purposes of information and discussion only and is not to be interpreted, read, or construed as intended to induce, invite, cajole, compel, or influence in any manner whatsoever any person of whatever Confession reading the aforesaid post or participating in the aforesaid discussion to join, attend, inquire, contemplate, believe, or concur with the Catholic Church, including those Churches and/or Rites in union with the Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ, Successor of the Prince of the Apostles, Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church, Primate of Italy, Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province, Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City, and Servant of the Servants of God of the Church aforesaid. The party/ies posting disclaim, reject, and abjure responsibility to said persons, Free Republic, and/or its Moderators for any Acts of God by which the Holy Spirit or another Person of the Holy Trinity induces, persuades, or influences the persons aforesaid to seek such information on their own accord through Divine Intervention or by the process hereby denominated "sanctifying grace." The party/ies posting warrant that this is not his/her responsibility or intent and arises from a Power that cannot be controlled by him or her in this life or hereafter. This disclaimer cannot be revoked as it is not governed by the civil or criminal, statutory or common law of the United States of America or any other governmental entity and is the sole responsibility of Divine Intervention. |
Parsing is a fine Tradition!
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 6: Angels and Devils
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 7: Human Beings and the Purpose of Life
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 8: Sanctifying Grace
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 9: Heaven
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 10: Mortal and Venial Sin
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 11: Hell
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 12: Purgatory
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 13: Original Sin
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 14: Jesus Christ, Our Savior
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 15: Jesus Christ, True God and True Man
A Brief Catechism for Adults - Lesson 16: The Catholic Church is the Only True Church
Oh, aren’t we touchy!
DENNIS:
I told you. We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
ARTHUR:
Yes.
DENNIS:
...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
ARTHUR:
Yes, I see.
DENNIS:
...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major—
ARTHUR:
Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN:
Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.
ARTHUR:
I am your king!
WOMAN:
Well, I didn’t vote for you.
ARTHUR:
You don’t vote for kings.
WOMAN:
Well, how did you become King, then?
ARTHUR:
The Lady of the Lake,...
[angels sing]
...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS:
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
Well, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just ‘cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
I mean, if I went ‘round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
ARTHUR:
Shut up, will you? Shut up!
DENNIS:
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
ARTHUR:
Bloody peasant!
DENNIS:
Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That’s what I’m on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn’t you?
Why are they not accurate facts?
I have seen other sources that prove these dates.
And those churches were set up by whom? Come on, you know the answer!!!!
That’s exactly WHY Christ came into the world: to show us what God’s nature is. The devil can masquerade as an angel of light and, without a solid reference of what is holy, we can be deceived. Christ is our TOUCHSTONE, to enable us to discern evil from Good. With That Touchstone, and the Holy Spirit, anyone can understand God’s Will; we don’t need an earthly authority.
But we must be diligent students of the Master, merely reading the Bible in bits and pieces won't hack it; the world is full of those who quote Christ out of context!
As to the episcopagans (that’s kinda catchy), perhaps excommunicated is the wrong word; encouraged to repent, and unwelcome/disinvited to share in the Anglican community conferences and such. In short, they’re not Anglican anymore.
Peace,
I can’t believe how good Christian men and women can STILL be so acrimonious with each other! This argument is about trivial stuff! Regardless of which side of this debate you are on, it gives you no profit. Our Master is surely not pleased.
I encourage you all to prayerfully read the third chapter of Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians, in its entirety.
Peace,
Maybe you misinterpreted. I don’t consider Catholicism to be entirely separate from Christianity, but Catholics can define Catholicism for themselves, including any statements of superiority. There are several Protestant denominations that are the same way.
The Church was founded by Jesus, and is guided by Him. Indeed, He identifies Himself with the Church (Acts 9:4-5). It is His Mystical Body, and it cannot err in doctrine or moral teaching, in spite of the sins, failings and cowardice of its individual members.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.
