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To: the_conscience
... since the experience of time travel associated with the re-presentation is so highly acclaimed in that place.

I'm impressed that you get the "re-presentation" side of the sacrifice. And clearly we disagree about revelation. But I would disagree with the "experience" in what you say -- in the sense that I don't often have any sense of time travel, or of much else along those lines in the Mass. In my view "experiences" as such, are more in the "consolation" side of things, not to be expected but enjoyed when you get 'em.

This suggests to moi that I'm not understanding what you are saying about experience. I would have said that the whole "Charismatic" deal is experience-oriented. The Catholic deal is more in what my Zen buddies would call "practice", maybe 'askesis' would be a good word.

And of course I hasten add NOT askesis in order to be saved but to "live into" (and you may fer shur ask me what I mean by that, if anything, if it's not clear) being saved. That is, I don't "say my prayers" to impress God or get an entry on the good side of the ledger. I say them because doing so is one of the ways I can say,"I love you too," to God.

19 posted on 08/17/2007 2:50:39 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
"This suggests to moi that I'm not understanding what you are saying about experience. I would have said that the whole "Charismatic" deal is experience-oriented. The Catholic deal is more in what my Zen buddies would call "practice", maybe 'askesis' would be a good word."

Dawg, I'm sure you'd agree that both are experiences. The Charismatic experience is generally euphoric in the sense of hyper-joy while the Romanist experience is euphoric in the sense of self-denial. The point is that if any subjective experience is the ground upon which your faith is based, instead of the historical facts of Christ's life and death, then that faith will be based upon the shifting sands of the latest experiences and like any addict the latest experience with the same church never quite measures up to the the first "high" so he goes looking for the new church (drug) by which he can experience a greater euphoria.

So we have on the one hand the Romanist congregation selling tradition as experience with its concomitant rituals while the core of the Borg is putridly rotten and its corporate self-defense mechanisms kicked in to protect the Borg with whatever Machiavellian means available and to hell with ethics.

On the other hand we have the broader Evangelical community with it's secular prosperity and therapeutic gospel selling the gospel of the American dream of spiritual entreprenuerialship and if you visualize the right experience it may lead to success and even perhaps a spot on TBN.

And when people finally overdose on "Christian experience" it sometimes leads to death of faith as this truly sad story indicates

20 posted on 08/19/2007 11:01:43 PM PDT by the_conscience
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