Posted on 09/12/2007 4:06:00 AM PDT by beachdweller
This is a religious vanity post I suppose. I am a Christian raised mainly Baptist with some attendance at other denominations. I have, in the course of my life, had a couple of experiences of the intercession of the Holy Virgin for my help and Protection. I have also witnessed the Mass a few times as an outsider and felt drawn away from my Protestant identity. The order and sense of Apostolic succession appeals to me in the Church as opposed to the churches. However, my main point of confusion now is whether to draw close to the Roman Catholic Church, or the Orthodox. I feel questions about both, and drawn to both. I sincerely ask for advice. I feel unsure about the supremacy of the Pope (a great man) as opposed to the consensus of Bishops and the church. At the same time, while the Orthodox Church seems to have an unbroken link to Christ and a moving celebration of God, why is the RCC so much more numerous and successful. I see beauty and real authority in both, but am unsure which way to go. At the same time I am NOT trying to cause conflict among Christ's servants and ask that anyone responding be respectful of the other side. Also please, my Protestant brethren who may object to this subject I ask you do not attack me or anyone who answers in this thread. One last thing, I live in San Diego and any direction where to go for guidance here would be appreciated. Thanks and go with Christ.
Thanks to Titanites for pointing this post number 12 out. Here’s a pretty good “poser” post and I’m going to bookmark it..
Words such as "false" "wrong" "error" do not attribute motive.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Who did I accuse?
I know, isn’t it amazing to read Iscool’s post # 12? I’ve heard of taqqiyah, have you?
Really? you a Catholic? your posts have not shown that in the past 7+ years... And when are you leaving?
Bless you
vladimir998: Iscool, You’re a Catholic? If you’re “leaving” to join a Baptist church it sure is taking you a LOOOOONNNGG time to do it.
Alex: Wow. That's news to me, too!
And me too -- lots of folks are extremely puzzled by this post 12, I think.....
beachdweller,
Before you make any decisions, may I suggest you try to attend a traditional Latin Mass? Since you are also considering the Orthodox, I suspect you may be drawn to the beauty and majesty of the Tridentine Mass.
I see that you are in San Diego. I believe the FSSP has a parish there (St. Anne’s?), and the good priests of that order always say a nice, reverent Mass.
Good luck to you as you pray for guidance. I will pray for you as well.
Regards,
That having been said, this is a condensed version of What I Think now:
Once you accept, either on faith or intellectually, the proposition that, after the last Apostle died, that the church on Earth was a) on its own; or b) that the Holy Ghost isn't God; then you're on your way to a protestant ecclesiology.
Once you believe that, contra the above, that God has continually provided for the christian church, from Bethany to this morning, that His identity as shepherd has not changed and cannot change, then you can no longer believe in universal apostasy (which is the unspoken premise of protestantism), and, if you DO believe in universal apostasy, you might as well be LDS.
So, if you DON'T believe that the Lord broke His promises to be with us until the end of the age, and you DON'T believe that Christ lied when He said that he was founding a Church with Earthly and Heavenly aspects, against which the Gates of Hell could not prevail, and you DO believe in the Holy Ghost as fully spirit and fully God, then, you have to start looking for a church that has existed since 33AD continuously, that doesn't teach that anything delivered to the Apostles is false, and that doesn't just include you and a few of your friends.
And once you accept THAT, then you have excluded protestant ecclesiology as impossible.
To quote Sherlock Holmes, "when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth".
Yes, from a protestant formation, the idea that the Catholic Church is true is VERY improbable. But it's not impossible, and I believe the alternative ecclesiologies contradict Jesus' own words and are therefore impossible.
Good luck.
So, you said that “I’m a Catholic but I’m leaving to join a Baptist church” — really?
In any event, whichever you decide, please pray fervently "that we all may be one."
Through the Jesus Prayer, invocation of the Most Holy Name (Catholics have an ickier jargon than the Orthodox -- it comes of being translated from Latin through French by English speakers with Victorian sensibilities), the Holy Spirit will provide you a shield and a guide.
It's funny, we think prayer rises from us to God, but really the most important part is what's going the other way.
Who did I accuse?
WHOM daggumit!
I invite you to join the most worshipful society for the preservation of the objective case of the relative pronoun. We have this nifty lapel pin!
We now return you to your regular programming already in progress.
ROFL at my own silliness. I'm a sick man.
Why do I never know what's going on? (Okay, that's too big a question...)
Wonders never cease (despite the teaching of some that they stopped when the last of the twelve shuffled off the mortal coil).
I’m glad I saw that post of yours, iscool. I would never have believed you otherwise. No wonder you were always getting onto caucus threads.
Leaving to join a Baptist Church? That’s funny.
There is no substitute for prayer - daily, morning and night prayer. I would suggest seeking out Catholic AND Orthodox priests. AsSk them for a prayer rule.
And of course, attending a variety of services.
Warning: Some of the Russian Orthodox All Night Vigils - while I have never been at one that literally went all night, I wasn’t sure there for a while.
That was the intention...
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