Posted on 10/19/2007 9:32:33 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Those things can be measured, tested, pretty much proven, and all people, throughout history know it...not the same as our spiritual beliefs.
11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
Maybe he believes in our 11th Article of Faith.
The whole lot is available here: http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1
Personally, I agree with my dad, who happens to be Roman Catholic. We all agree there was only one hill, with three crosses, two of which held thieves. HOW IN HECK do you fit so many other people on that one last cross?
Obviously, there are differences in doctrine between the many Christian churches, and those differences are based in differences in beliefs about the nature of God and his son. Far as I’m concerned, He’s led me where he wants me. If he wants you someplace else, who am I to tell you you’re wrong to be there? And when did He tell you to tell me I was wrong to be where he told me to go?
First off, and you need not reply to this as it is an aside: How do you measure your own existence? If you don't exist, you can't be certain that you're measuring anything.
Now to the rest. All belief systems are propositional. If one does not know the propositions, they cannot believe those propositions as being a part of that belief system.
Belief always has an object, whether 'spiritual' matters or not. i believe in the existence of Gravity, is to say that i believe in the gravitational theory (a proposition) of an attractive force between two bodies of mass.
If Joel Osteen is not aware of the most basic propositions of Christianity, how then can he believe?
Q.E.D. To not know what one 'believes' is absurd.
Knowing what one believes, is not the same as actual knowledge of what one believes.
If a person is involved in the post-modern relativism of the “emerging church movement” it would make sense. It’s a heretical cancer spreading throughout the church:
http://www.svchapel.org/Resources/Articles/read_articles.asp?ID=122
(Links to Part 2 and Part 3 at the bottom.)
Wake up sheeple!
“Obviously if God did not want him to live the way he does, he would not have been given the gifts he has to run his religion.”
Would you say the same about Jim Jones? Or Islam?
No he’s the little kid from 6th Sense
I kinda like Joel Osteen, but he shouldn’t really call himself a preacher. He’s more like a financial and spiritual Tony Robbins. In case it’s unclear, I mean that in a good way.
I would say it about all people.
Except that 'experiential knowledge' was not what was referred to.
The original post dealt with the fact that Osteen does not have a propositional knowledge of the subject on which he presumes to pontificate...he doesn't have a good working knowledge of the propositions of basic Christian doctrine.
You're a good person, and a good balance to these discussions Stuart, but please do try to follow the thread.
FYI, Osteen has no formal theological training. Coming from a conservative, Reformed denomination, i can tell you that a Joel Osteen would never be ordained in our denomination...not because he's a bad man, but because he doesn't regard the supposed 'call' of God on his life to be significant enough to get the requisite education, so that he's better equipped to accept and fulfill the call that he believes God placed on his life.
If one believed that they were called into medicine, it would be foolish to attempt to practise that profession without at least some level of medical education (LPN, RN, PA, MD, etc).
i find it distressing that those charged with the spiritual well-being of their congregations are not likewise equipped to deal with that grave responsibility.
Aw c'mon, you know the First Vision doesn't give anyone that kind of out...
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join. 19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” 20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time....
Thanks, it was what I was referring to.
It’s called voluntary obedience. Not forced obedience. You get to choose. Do so wisely. (as best you can. that is all we can do, after all.)
I will tell you that I’ve seen things in the Baptist church that make me believe that Joseph Smith was dead on in what he wrote. I’ve also seen some pretty good people in that and other churches besides mine, and some folks I thought were pretty poor in mine. As a friend once told me: “It don’t take all kinds, we just got all kinds.” So does your church, whatever it is. We will get it all straightened out “in the sweet bye and bye...”
***He even fesses up to it by saying he hadn’t “studied it carefully.***
Considering he didn’t attend seminary, I reckon there are quite a few doctrinal issues he hasn’t studied carefully.
Classic Mormon Thread BTTT.
A psstor’s main job is to be a shepherd and protect the sheep...
Nuff said...
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