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To: Cvengr; annalex; ears_to_hear; wmfights; Campion
Of faith, love, and charity, ...charity is the greatest. (Charity as in giving with no anticipation of anything at all in return,...not charity as in Hillary Clinton’s nonprofit organization model which seeks admiration if it gives and demands authority if it takes away to give to whom they view as worthy in their own eyes...)

I disagree that this is how "charity" is used. It is used in the sense of "love" in the MACRO sense. The problem we have is in reconciling this verse so that it does not mean that love "trumps" faith. If it did, then the only result would be a works-based salvation. Instead, we can say that love here refers to all love that is good. It includes God's love for us and ours for Him. Faith and hope only refer to individuals. In this verse, love (charity) is greater because it encompasses more.

63 posted on 11/12/2007 8:23:20 PM PST by Forest Keeper (It is a joy to me to know that God had my number, before He created numbers.)
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To: Forest Keeper; Cvengr; ears_to_hear; wmfights; Campion
used in the sense of "love" in the MACRO sense ...

This is an amazing spin on a very clear passage, and your only reason for it is "the only result would be a works-based salvation". This logical fallacy is called "begging the question".

66 posted on 11/13/2007 10:55:41 AM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea-Luke17.php)
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To: Forest Keeper; annalex
I disagree that this is how "charity" is used. It is used in the sense of "love" in the MACRO sense. ... Instead, we can say that love here refers to all love that is good. It includes God's love for us and ours for Him.

I'm with annalex. I have no idea where you get this exegesis from. The word translated charity here is simply agapon, the usual Greek word for selfless love.

The problem we have is in reconciling this verse so that it does not mean that love "trumps" faith. If it did, then the only result would be a works-based salvation.

Instead of starting out with a theological position and reading it back into Scripture, why don't you form your theological ideas from Scripture -- all of it -- in the first place?

That way, you don't need "reconcile" a verse by making it meaningless.

BTW, Paul's point here is simply that agape continues into heaven, and is therefore greater than faith or hope, which aren't needed in heaven. It goes without saying that he thinks all three are necessary here on earth.

68 posted on 11/13/2007 11:13:54 AM PST by Campion
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