The Real Presence of Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist (with full Scriptural references)

Columbia ^

[kevinw]

Amen. Christ’s sacrifice took place only once-—at Calvary. Christ can never, and will never, be sacrificed again. He cried out, “It is finished,” when He was crucified. That means that He accomplished everything necessary for our salvation. There is no more need for sacrifices, bloody or otherwise. To offer sacrifices of any kind today would insult Christ and what He did at Calvary. Communion is not a sacrifice; it is a memorial of Christ’s sacrifice. The bread and the wine are symbols of Christ’s body and blood.

[armydoc]

That is to say, by the grace of this Sacrament men enjoy the greatest peace and tranquillity of conscience during the present life; and, when the hour of departing from this world shall have arrived, like Elias, who in the strength of the bread baked on the hearth, walked to Horeb, the mount of God, they, too, invigorated by the strengthening influence of this (heavenly food), will ascend to unfading glory and bliss....

Sounds like this affirms a guarantee of salvation for those who partake in this "heavenly food".

[Pyro7480]

Those who receive worthily.

[LordBridey]

bump

[armydoc]

Those who receive worthily.

Those who have received the Eucharist "worthily" are guaranteed salvation?

[Pyro7480]

Anyone who dies in the state of grace will go to Heaven.

[armydoc]

Anyone who dies in the state of grace will go to Heaven.

True, but not relevant to our discussion. Our discussion concerned the efficacy of the Eucharist. You just implied that anyone who takes the Eucharist "worthily" is guaranteed salvation, did you not?

[Pyro7480]

Hey, I’m not the one who said, “He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever” (John 6: 59).

[armydoc]

Hey, I’m not the one who said, “He that eateth this bread, shall live for ever” (John 6: 59).

Exactly my point. Your Church does not teach according to scripture on this subject (if you are going to interpret "eateth this bread" as the Eucharistic Sacrament). Why not?

[Pyro7480]

You’re forgetting about sin.

[Pyro7480]

Also, I’m puzzled why you’re taking this line of argument. As someone who is “Reformed,” you obviously don’t believe what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist. You seem to be more concerned about “scoring points” against the Catholic Church for supposed “contradictions” than aligning yourself with what YOUR OWN LORD says.

[armydoc]

You’re forgetting about sin.

I don't follow. Please elaborate.


Also, I’m puzzled why you’re taking this line of argument. As someone who is “Reformed,” you obviously don’t believe what the Catholic Church teaches about the Eucharist. You seem to be more concerned about “scoring points” against the Catholic Church for supposed “contradictions” than aligning yourself with what YOUR OWN LORD says.

I am not concerned with "scoring points", I am concerned about the propogation of theological truth, as you should be. Remember, my posts were a response to NYer's non-caucus posting of this article, an article which gives the Catholic perspective on the Eucharist and contrasts it with the Protestant view. I have been told countless times in this forum that I "don't really know Catholic teachings", hence my questioning. That you should be surprised when Protestants "take the bait" and challenge the conclusions of this article is in itself surprising. If you are willing to continue this discussion, perhaps it would be helpful if you could answer the following:


1) Does participating in the Sacrament of the Eucharist in a state of grace guarantee salvation?

2) If not, how do you reconcile that with John 6:58? ("This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.")

3) Does not participating in the Sacrament of the Eucharist disqualify one from salvation?

4) If not, how do you reconcile that with John 6:53? ("So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you")