Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: DouglasKC; BipolarBob
The Bereans listened with open minds to Paul. The Bereans then used scripture to check to see if the teachings they heard matched up with scripture. If it did THEN they believed. They confirmed the teachings of Paul using scripture. That's honorable and correct.

No one questions that Paul, a Jew, quoted OT Scripture to demonstrate to the Bereans that the Messiah, predicted in those texts, had been born. No one! But you are trying to draw an impossible parallel with 1st century Christians before the New Testament was even written.

Christ was wrathful against the Jews of his day because they instituted non scriptural ORAL traditions and elevated them to the place of scripture:

As I demonstrated in my post, Mark 7:9 refers to human tradition (that we should reject) and not apostolic tradition (that we must accept). Look at Eph. 4:20 where Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!” , or Phil. 4:9 where Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.

Douglas, step into the time machine and travel back to the 1st century. These early converts had NO BIBLE! They learned everythring through ORAL TRADITION.

82 posted on 11/12/2007 3:25:53 PM PST by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies ]


To: NYer
My original challenge was this:"Who changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first and by what authority? Obviously Jesus was a Sabbatarian because He stood up and read scriptures on the Sabbath. Quote scriptures that directly explain this abrupt departure from a millennia old Law that was wrote by the Hand of God on stone tablets." You were unable to prove to me by scripture a forceful argument to prove by whom or by what authority (certainly not Christs) this change was made.

Ready for challenge #2?

84 posted on 11/12/2007 4:49:15 PM PST by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rear view mirror.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies ]

To: NYer
The Bereans listened with open minds to Paul. The Bereans then used scripture to check to see if the teachings they heard matched up with scripture. If it did THEN they believed. They confirmed the teachings of Paul using scripture. That's honorable and correct.
No one questions that Paul, a Jew, quoted OT Scripture to demonstrate to the Bereans that the Messiah, predicted in those texts, had been born. No one! But you are trying to draw an impossible parallel with 1st century Christians before the New Testament was even written.

I wasn't making the point that they were using the new testament to verify Paul's teaching. I was making the point that they were using the old testament to verify Paul's teaching.

Scripture says as much:

Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.

The "law and the prophets" is a common term for the sacred books of the old testament.

As I demonstrated in my post, Mark 7:9 refers to human tradition (that we should reject) and not apostolic tradition (that we must accept). Look at Eph. 4:20 where Paul refers the Ephesians to the oral tradition they previously received when he writes, “You did not so learn Christ!” , or Phil. 4:9 where Paul says that what you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, do. This refers to learning from his preaching and example, which is apostolic tradition.

Apostolic tradition is fine if it lines up with scripture. But the gospel truth was being lost and corrupted even in biblical times. Churches were being taken from the apostles and control wrested:

3Jn 1:9 I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. 3Jn 1:10 Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.

Above is an example of a church taken over by heretics. Maybe it was remedied, maybe not, but human organizations were already being corrupted.

Speaking of Paul and his letters Peter said:

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.

People wrest and twist scripture to their own destruction.

Douglas, step into the time machine and travel back to the 1st century. These early converts had NO BIBLE! They learned everythring through ORAL TRADITION.

That's not correct. They had the law and the prophets in written form:

Mat 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes?

Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Mar 2:25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was hungry, he, and they that were with him?

Mar 12:10 And have ye not read this Scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

I can list many more verses where they read from the "old testament". But they also were circulating and reading AT LEAST Paul's letters in biblical times:

1Th 5:27 I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read unto all the holy brethren.

And if you notice back in 2 Peter 3:16 Peter lumped in Paul's letters with "the rest of the scriptures."

86 posted on 11/13/2007 8:13:39 AM PST by DouglasKC
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson