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To: DocRock
The fallacy in this argument is that both Saddam and the U.S. initiated violence. Any reasoning mind can clearly see the contradiction in this logic. Only one can initiate and then others respond.

What violence did Saddam initiate directly against us? Please don't make the incorrect claim that he initiated 9/11. We invaded Iraq. We were opposed in this by several of our allies as well as many religious people including the Catholic Church. The fact is that we initiated violence against Iraq - some in this country think it was justified and just as many or more do not. If having nuclear capability is sufficient reason to invade, then our country is the most justified target - we have more than anyone and we are the only country to have used nuclear weapons on other human beings. (I know there is a very good case for that use - especially from our perspective.) However, how does any one country get the right to decide what other countries can have or not have?

This current war is not supported by the United Nations - the first Gulf war was. Our actions, in defiance of the majority of world opinion, are being undertaken because we believe that it is in our best interest - the innocent life lost in this endeavor is justified because it promotes our well being. Because we are powerful, we can insist on the choice to do this. In this case, we as a nation, are pro-choice (at least for us) and the innocent life lost in war is an unfortunate but necessary consequence. But you are supporting the opposite of this situation for our women.

I know there are significant differences in this. Countries exist on their own, with the ability to contribute something to the quality and circumstances of their existence.

An unborn baby is completely dependent upon and attached to the woman within whom it exists. Nothing happens to that developing human before it happens to the woman. That developing human is part of the physical structure of the woman and alters her physiology significantly. To take away her right and responsibility to determine what is best for her and her family is almost like an external power determining what will happen in our physical environment - as in completely giving up our national freedom to the United Nations. We are not likely to let that happen but there is outrage when we can not take freedom of choice away from our pregnant women.

It is clear that no human being comes into this world except through the environment of a woman's body. That may change - with the development of an artificial womb - but it is now the case. I do not believe that our spiritual life, created by a spiritual God is dependent upon a material, human sex act and a woman's choice to deliver a baby. Human will is not more powerful than God. To realize our true spiritual existence, in the image of our perfect Source, we need the freedom to make our own way towards that true and wonderful existence. Life is eternal and spiritually indestructible. Human consciousness is limited and flawed - it must be overcome. No one can force this on another, we must have the freedom to make that progress on our own - even if it appears that innocent human life is interrupted at whatever stage. If it is "God's will" that a person should be here in this human environment, then nothing can prevent that from ultimately happening in one way or another. What is more powerful than God?

This may be beyond what you are ready to contemplate, but I offer it anyway - just in case.

105 posted on 11/21/2007 1:28:40 PM PST by Semper
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To: Semper
If you don't think Jesus is God, we really don't have anything to talk about. You asked a question, it has been answered, nobody cares if you don't accept the answers, but some of us do care if you keep spewing anti-war propaganda.

"Please don't make the incorrect claim that he initiated 9/11."

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that and I will not tolerate any implication that I did. Hitler didn't bomb us on Dec 7, 1941 and we sure went to Berlin. As a matter of fact, we still have bases in Germany, over sixty years later. Please don't post any more pro-Saddam garbage to me anymore. Please don't post any anti-war propaganda to me either. I don't care how you feel about the war or about abortion. As a matter of fact, just don't post to me anymore.

108 posted on 11/21/2007 2:20:58 PM PST by DocRock (All they that TAKE the sword shall perish with the sword. Matthew 26:52 Gun grabbers beware.)
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