"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Posted on 11/28/2007 12:16:23 PM PST by topcat54
If we believe, by the time we are done, that God has given us an understanding of this chapter, our response should be one of humility and gratitude. The apocalyptic sections of the gospels have been the occasion of no end of confusion and dispute within the Church, and so we must watch our step.
"And as he went out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! . . ." (Mark 13:1-37).
The disciples marvel at the Temple, as well they might (v. 1). What stones! What buildings! We should consider this passage as a prophecy our Lord made about the immediate future of Jerusalem, a prophecy which authenticates Him in the first aspect of His three-fold office -- prophet, priest, and king. The standard applied to a true prophet fits Him well (Dt. 18). What He predicted came to pass in astonishing detail. This means that we should take the entire chapter as having been fulfilled in the first century in the destruction of Jerusalem. But in order to do this well, we have to fix three anchors in our minds.
First, Jesus was answering specific questions. In response to their admiration, Jesus tells the disciples that the Temple will be leveled (v. 2). In response to this, they ask Him, "When? What shall be the sign that these things shall be fulfilled?" (vv. 3-4). This discourse is an answer to these questions, and Jesus explicitly says (v. 30) that these things shall be fulfilled within one generation. Either that happened or it did not, and history shows us that it did.
Second, Mark expects his readers to understand him. When Mark introduces the abomination of desolation, he expects the reader to understand what he himself understands (v. 14). The abomination is a man doing what he should not, and it occurs shortly after Jerusalem is surrounded by armies (Luke 21:20).
The third anchor is how the Old Testament is quoted. Two of the main answers for Christians who have trouble applying this to the first century are found in Old Testament references (vv. 24-27). In the Bible, collapsing solar system terminology, decreation language, always refers to a judgment upon nations (e.g. Is. 13: 10). And second, in Daniel 7:13, where does the son of man come? Note how Jesus speaks of this in the next chapter (14:62). And what follows His enthronement? The answer is universal dominion, and His elect gathered. The son of man who appears in the clouds of heaven is not coming down to earth, but rather is approaching the Ancient of Days in heaven. This refers, not to the Second Coming, but to the Ascension.
In the early part of "this generation," various attacks would come upon the disciples. First, attempts at deception (vv. 5-6). The occasion of such deceptions will be political and physical turmoil, which Jesus says is not the end (vv. 7-8). The saints will also be persecuted (vv. 9,12-13). Nevertheless, the gospel will be preached among the nations (v. 10; cf. Col. 1:23). The Holy Spirit will be with them, and give them words to say as they stand trial (v. 11). The one who perseveres through these trials will be saved (v. 13).
Jesus then told His disciples to flee Jerusalem when they saw certain things come together. Luke describes it as Jerusalem surrounded by armies (21:20). Matthew and Mark describe it in similar terms, with Mark saying it is a man standing where he ought not. Some interpret the abomination as the Roman idolatrous standards at the Temple’s end. But Jesus points to the abomination as a sign to flee. If it were the Roman sacrilege in the Temple, it would be too late to flee. The desecration is most likely the abominations committed by the Jewish fanatics who occupied the Temple during the War, and who were guilty of enormous crimes there, including the consecration of some hayseed as their "high priest." When this was seen, it was time to flee. Interestingly, the early Christians did just this, and according to Eusebius and Epiphanius, Jerusalem Christians fled to Pella in the Transjordan. Jesus said that if you fled at that time, you would have barely any time left (vv. 15-16). The trial would be severe (vv. 17-19), worse than any in the history of the world. God would shorten the days for them (v. 20), but the disciples were not to look for false escapes (vv. 21-22).
Learn another lesson from another fig tree (v. 28). These things signal the approach of summer. Or, to use the image used earlier, the beginning of birth pangs. When these things happen, everything will come suddenly. It is at the door, within one generation (vv. 29-30).
"Within one generation" is all the detail on timing that will be provided (vv. 32). The injunction that follows is watch. But since this is watch and pray, it means watch your hearts, not watch the sky, or the newspaper (v. 33). The master of the house is going to leave for a while (vv. 34-36). And there is a lesson for all Christians here (v. 37), not just those Christians in the first century who saw all this fulfilled in 70 A.D..
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
***But Jesus points to the abomination as a sign to flee. If it were the Roman sacrilege in the Temple, it would be too late to flee. The desecration is most likely the abominations committed by the Jewish fanatics who occupied the Temple during the War, and who were guilty of enormous crimes there, including the consecration of some hayseed as their “high priest.” When this was seen, it was time to flee. Interestingly, the early Christians did just this, and according to Eusebius and Epiphanius, Jerusalem Christians fled to Pella in the Transjordan.***
I was discussing these events in history with a Catholic friend of mine and she said something to the effect that when the armies entered Jerusalem and the standard was setup in the Temple that there was a period of time when the armies were in great confusion and many people escaped to Pella. I’ll have to ask her who she was referencing as I had never heard that before.
Mod, Please make this a Reformed Preterist Caucus. I’m sure that topcat will agree that it qualifies.
Nope. Just doing you all a favor.
These are regular convocations on your part limited to Reformed Preterists, so I thought I’d push you all toward a little devotional time together.
And I hope it's the last time.
Calvinists don't like to exclude anyone from participating. We all have things to learn.
What’s not positive.
Here I am helping you see that this is another in a great series of Reformed Preterist Threads in which the preterists discuss their unique symbolism with each other.
I would love to provide you all with the security of discussing you ideas in a church setting in which ideas don’t happen that disturb you. I’ve seen how vexed you get when others disagree with you.
Therefore, this kindness on my part. Take the “caucus” label, friend, and run with it. Consider it a gift.
It is because of my great regard for your relief from vexation that I extend this idea. It distresses me to see you get so worked up when others disagree with you. It is only for your health that I suggest you accept as kindness my suggestion that you wisely request a caucus label.
They just exclude people from their ping lists.
If Christ came, as you say, in 70 A.D. in fulfillment of the Matt, 24 prophecy then why does Peter say the coming will be at the end of the age and not mention the dramatic “coming in the clouds” that heralded the momentous rejection of Israel and the old covenant?
2 Peter 3:3-10, “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: but the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
Telling someone they should make their thread a closed caucus thread does not seem to be a very cordial thing to do, x.
If you don't like preterist threads, don't post to them. Plenty of us learn from them. I don't see how anyone could take your suggestion as anything but a form of censorship.
I haven't.
Anyone reading xzins' comments can see he's being facetious. So what would be his intent in this request if not to dampen the discussion?
If he's serious and anyone can get any thread labeled a "caucus," then that's a pretty nifty method of stifling all debate.
It has happened before, but I do not entertain a request to add the caucus designation except when made by the article’s poster.
Thanks. That’s good to know.
You’ve made four comments to this thread and not one of them discusses the article. Interesting.
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