Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Deut28
Through Christ in the individual, the individual can accurately interpret the Scripture. The individual can also misinterpret scripture, as man is fallible, including the Pope.

There must be some element within the Church that enables it to be the "pillar and foundation of the truth". Something guided by God that can give us an interpretation of the inspired Word of God, without questioning whether it is correct or not. If this Church was not infallibly protected in some manner, how could it BE the pillar and foundation of the truth?

What is important to realize is that God HAS given us a means to KNOW the truth, and it is NOT based on our own opinions.

Thus, the St. Augustine's "Rome has spoken, the matter is closed".

Regards

59 posted on 01/24/2008 8:12:38 AM PST by jo kus (You can't lose your faith? What about Luke 8:13...? God says you can...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies ]


To: jo kus
If this Church was not infallibly protected in some manner, how could it BE the pillar and foundation of the truth?

You answered your own question...Your church is not infallible...My church is not infallible...The only infallible truth comes from God...

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

There must be some element within the Church that enables it to be the "pillar and foundation of the truth". Something guided by God that can give us an interpretation of the inspired Word of God, without questioning whether it is correct or not.

There is...The Holy Spirit who indwells all believers...

Your problem is that you don't believe that this particular scripture applies to you and your church as well...

2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.

That goes for you and your pope as well...That also goes for the Apostles...Including Peter...NO PRIVATE INTERPRETATION...

God is the pillar and ground of the truth...Not your church...

61 posted on 01/24/2008 8:44:13 AM PST by Iscool
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies ]

To: jo kus

The element of which you speak is the Holy Spirit, God within his people. And I’m quite sure you would agree that God is infallible.

To suggests that the element that enables the Church to be the “pillar and foundation of truth” is a man is blasphemous.

The Bible identifies the Rock of the Church many, many times. And it is always the same.

God has given us the means, and it is not our own opinions. It is the Holy Spirit. Indeed, it is the Catechism of the Catholic Church that identifies the Holy Spirit as the Interpreter of Scripture.

Is the Catechism incorrect? Where does the Holy Spirit reside in your view, and in the Bible’s view?


73 posted on 01/24/2008 11:08:10 AM PST by Deut28 (Cursed be he who perverts the justice)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies ]

To: jo kus; All
>Thus, the St. Augustine's "Rome has spoken, the matter is closed".

Actually, and hopefully this is the last time I have to bring this up, (but I know that people being people will just keep throwing this chestnut out there, ignorantly), this is a false quote from Augustine, and probably just a twisted paraphrase, that is oft repeated by Catholics that have not a clue...

"Roman Catholic scholar Klaus Schatz, S.J., addressed this quote in, Papal Primacy (Minnesota: The Liturgical Press, 1996, p. 34-35). Schatz, received his doctorate at Rome's Gregorian University in 1974 and since 1975 has taught Church history at the St. Georgen School of Philosophy and Theology in Frankfurt, Germany. Schatz is not fringe Catholic scholar. He believes in the development of the papacy."

[The following is from Dr. Schatz's book...]

“In the case of North Africa it is interesting to note the attitude of a self-confident and organizationally intact Church toward Rome. The saying of Bishop Augustine of Hippo (396-430), Roma locuta, causa finita ("Rome has spoken, the matter is settled") was quoted repeatedly. However, the quotation is really a bold reshaping of the words of that Church Father taken quite out of context.

Concretely the issue was the teaching of Pelagius, an ascetic from Britain who lived in Rome. Pelagius took a stand against permissive and minimalist Christianity that shrank from the moral seriousness of Christian discipleship and used human incapacity and trust in grace alone to excuse personal sloth. He therefore emphasized an ethical Christianity of works and moral challenge for which grace was primarily an incentive to action; human beings remain capable of choosing between good and evil by their own power. This teaching was condemned by two North African councils in Carthage and Mileve in 416. But since Pelagius lived in Rome, and Rome was the center of the Pelagian movement, it seemed appropriate to inform Pope Innocent I of the decision. Ultimately, the struggle against Pelagianism could only be carried on with the cooperation of Rome. The Pope finally responded in 417, accepting the decisions of the two councils. Augustine then wrote: "In this matter, two councils have already sent letters to the apostolic see, and from thence rescripts have come back. the matter is settled (causa finita est); if only the heresy would cease!"

This was found at Beggars All blog

Note that the Pope had to be told what to think on the matter. So much for his divinely guided infallibility...

99 posted on 01/24/2008 5:53:50 PM PST by Ottofire (For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson