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To: Zakeet

Excuse me as far as I am concern it is the Tanner’s who lack discernment!

are you related to me like their son or something?


45 posted on 02/17/2008 3:21:35 AM PST by restornu (People do your own home work don't rely on the media!)
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To: restornu; Zakeet

I noticed you did not dispute the truth of anything Zakeet stated in post #38, so I am left to assume that the facts s/he alleges are true.


67 posted on 02/17/2008 5:48:41 AM PST by SeaHawkFan
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To: restornu; colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; ...
Excuse me as far as I am concern it is the Tanner’s who lack discernment!

I have found Utah Lighthouse Ministry far more credible than the LDS Church

For example, on the matter of the First Vision, the Tanner's have documented with annotations direct from Mormon historical documents the nine different versions of the vision. You can review them at your convenience HERE, and if so, you will notice rather profound differences. You will also note the first account did not appear until 1830-31 – and the official account did not appear until 1838 – a full eighteen years after it purportedly happened and at the exact moment when Smith greatly needed to shore up his authority and silence critics.

Mark Hofmann was a documents forger who foisted several dozen fake documents onto Mormon Church Leadership. Hofmann's amazing discoveries were purchased by devout Mormons and the donated to the Church. Writings favorable to Mormonism were placed on prominent display – writings deemed damaging to the cause were secreted away.

Hofmann's most famous fabrication was the Salamander Letter. In this writing, supposedly by Book of Mormon Witness Martin Harris, a tenth version of the First Vision surfaced. Fortunately for the Mormon Church, the first account of the visitation was extended back in time a full five years to the mid-1820's. Unfortunately for the Church, in this telling Joseph was visited by an elf who took the form of a salamander.

Mormon leadership verified the authenticity of the letter, apparently relying in large part on the opinion of forensic documents examiners. Based on his vast knowledge of Mormonism, Gerald Tanner on the other hand immediately denounced the document as a fraud. Tanner was proven right.

The effects of the Salamander Letter haunt the Mormon Church to this day.

As can be seen in the photograph above, two Mormon Prophets, Ezra Taft Benson and Gordon Hinckley were among the duped.

President Hinckley would later candidly admit: I accepted [Hofmann] to come into my office on a basis of trust … I frankly admit that Hofmann tricked us. He also tricked experts from New York to Utah, however … I am not ashamed to admit that we were victimized. It is not the first time the Church has found itself in such a position. Joseph Smith was victimized again and again. The Savior was victimized. I am sorry to say that sometimes it happens. – Dew, S. (1996). Go Forward with Faith: The Biography of Gordon B. Hinckley. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, p. 432.

But according to LDS doctrine at the time, this was impossible.

In his February 26, 1980 speech at BYU titled Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, LDS President Ezra Taft Benson maintained the Mormon Church President spoke with inerrant authority on "any matter, temporal or spiritual " and was "not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time."

This changed with the new proclamation:

Prophets are mortal men who have been ordained and chosen by God to be a mouthpiece for revelation and guidance, but that revelation only comes when God wills it, making it somewhat sporadic in both ancient and modern times. There is no expectation that every act, every decision, and every purchase by a prophet will be divinely and infallibly guided. As Joseph Smith said, "a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such." – Jeff Lindsay, The Salamander Letter and Mark Hofmann

The incident also led to the founding and naming of the Salamander Society, an organization founded by Mormons for the purpose of Lampooning the LDS faith.

Finally, please be advised if you want, I can provide additional examples where I have found the Tanner's more credible than LDS church leaders.

110 posted on 02/17/2008 11:45:33 AM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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To: restornu

Resty, articles like this are just flame bait.

Why do you do it?


353 posted on 02/18/2008 10:54:40 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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