ROMAN CATHOLICISM: A DIFFERENT GOSPEL

Apprising Ministries ^ | January 16, 2008 | Ken Silva

[hosepipe]

[ There IS a Church history, whether anyone will admit to it or not. ]

The RCC have their history the EO theirs and others theirs.. Who do you believe?.. There are options..

[ And it did, in fact, show an active use of baptism to bring new converts into the Church. ]

In many "churchs" baptism is a ceremony.. in others it is a rite, and still others a sacrament.. still others could care less..

Its all rolled in what the word MEANS, I think.. For you do know the word Baptism comes from the word Immersion.. The questions arise..

1) Why immerse at all..
2) Is a little water enough?...
3) What does it signify?..
4) Is it a ceremony for as purpose?
5) Why did the Jews(Levites) immerse in water as a model?..

And many other questions.. OR you can just swallow somebodys opinion of it.. Jesus was Baptised.. WHY?.. Is baptising babies silly?.. Like that.. Lazy people just do what they are told..

[wmfights]

You don't believe baptism imparts Grace? I'm am truly shocked.

If you do believe it imparts Grace, why aren't you shocked at your church. Babies who might not be Christians infused with the Holy Spirit, by the power of a man. It seems to me that you could look at that and say it's blapshemy.

[PapaBear3625]

Modern Catholics don't generally cut your head off when you disagree with them
The Reformation led to the end of that stuff.

No, it lead to massive religious wars. What ended it was the end of theology being used as a source of political legitimacy

When political power no longer depended on being in the favor of the dominant religious powers, there was much less excuse to kill those with disagreeing religious views

[OLD REGGIE]

Reggie, you know that Catholics believe that around or about 45 AD, Peter went to Rome and from there lead the Catholic Church. See below what some of the early believers say ...

Yes I do. I also know "tradition" has it that he spent 25 years in Rome.

I am "shocked and chagrined" you'd stoop to a cut & paste article from Catholic Answers. Tch Tch.

I don't know whether he was ever in Rome for as much as one day nor do you. The fact is; however, that he wasn't there for 25 years.

I find it a strange omission in Scriptures that Peter went to Rome, in the light of the fact that RC Claims that he was & that he lived in Rome for some 25 years. Since He was Martyred during the reign of Nero - His death must have occurred some where before 68 AD, Most Bible scholars believe that Peter was Martyred in 66 A.D. so I will not disagree with them.

From these few facts we can calculate backwards & take away 25 years which brings us to 41 A.D. The first date of Peters arrival in Rome.

In 44 A.D. He was in Prison Jerusalem Acts 12 - About 52 A.D. He was in Council in Jerusalem Acts 15 - in 53 A.D. Paul Joined him in Antioch Galatians 2: 11 - About 58 A. D. Paul wrote his letter to Romans, in which he sent Greetings to 27 persons, But does not mention Peter. In NONE of the epistles written from Rome is Peter mentioned.

Paul's Last letter from Rome was 2 Timothy. In it he says. "At my first answer NO MAN Stood with me, but all forsook me" 4: 16.

Where then WAS PETER if he was in Rome?? In The same epistle, just before Paul's martyrdom - Paul said "Only Luke is with me" 4: 11.

Was Peter ever in Rome? - 25 Years?

Please spend some time with Scripture and less time with Catholic Answers.

[Kolokotronis]

#50 is a very good post, M!

[hosepipe]

[ Hmmmm. I don’t see pens mentioned anywhere in John 10 actually. There’s one pen with a gate on it Our Lord is leading people out of. ]

"And other sheep I have not of THIS sheepfold(PEN)..".. Voila Sheep pens.. An eternal God would know the future that would be denominations.. even within the RCC there are "folds" for the sheep.. sub-pens maybe.. The metaphor is intact..

I also believe goat folds are implied, not said, but implied, I think.. i.e. Buddism, Islam, Hinduisn, Animism, Cargo Cultists, Atheists, Agnostics like that... It dont say it but the metaphor works IF you can see the metsphor.. The metaphor is true to the Sheep/Goats metaphor as well.. The word of God is DEEP..

[hosepipe]

[ May I present to you the irony of your recent post to me? ]

Whose opinion do you follow.?..
You were not THERE.. you didnt know any of those people(in the bible)..
Or has the Holy Spirit showed you something?..
He does that..

I tend to follow John, Matthew, Mark.. and others that transcribed the words in the Bible.. Sola Scriptura has its benefits.. But the paraclete(Holy Spirit) has things to teach us in the Bible and NOT in the Bible.. For thats WHY Jesus left the Holy Spirit here while he is away specifically for that purpose.. Neat ain't it?..

[OpusatFR]

“Unfortunately, the Catholic Church teaches that the Muslim God is the same as the God of Christians. (It’s in the current Catechism).”

The key word is “profess.” Islam “professes” the God of Abraham. Just read the whole thing and don’t extrapolate from a sentence.

http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

(And yes, I know the “MoonGod” business from the Jack Chi**K tracts. No great thinker there.)

[wmfights]

They ARE infused with the Holy Spirit, by the power of GOD. And they are washed clean, and they are regenerated, and they are the children of God, redeemed by Christ, and covered by the Holy Spirit. Hallelujah!

How exactly does a baby have Faith in Jesus? All they know is how to eat and poop. Are you saying that belief is only secondary?

Tell, me wmfights - please - why did the apostles even bother to baptize in the Bible?

Scripture is always the best guide.

Mark 16:15-16 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Notice what comes first?

Now if you read Acts you will find the Holy Spirit indwelling believers prior to baptism.

[BlessedBeGod]

...the majority of my own family line, who are trapped in this apostate man-made system of religion known as Roman Catholicism.

Trapped? TRAPPED?!?!?!? OMG! And here I thought it was a free country and you could belong to whatever religion you wanted to. Are they in Egypt? The Sudan? Iran? How traumatic! Trapped! The poor things!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The Holy Spirit employs water as an external sign and symbol of an internal/spiritual regeneration.

The water itself has no power to regenerate. It is God alone who regenerates the fallen heart by the Holy Spirit confirming the covenant of grace between God and His family, a sign and seal of this grace being found in the sacraments, an "external sign and symbol."

WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH
CHAPTER XXVII
Of the Sacraments
I. Sacraments are holy signs and seals of the covenant of grace, immediately instituted by God, to represent Christ and his benefits, and to confirm our interest in him: as also to put a visible difference between those that belong unto the Church, and the rest of thw world; and solemnly to engage them to the service of God in Christ, according to his Word.

II. There is in every sacrament a spiritual relation, or sacramental union, between the sign and the thing signified; whence it comes to pass that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other.

III. The grace which is exhibited in or by the sacraments, rightly used, is not conferred by any power in them; neither doth the efficacy of a sacrament depend upon the piety or intention of him that doth administer it, but upon the work of the Spirit, and the word of institution, which conatins, together with a precept authorizing the use thereof, a promise of benefit to worthy receivers.

IV. There be only two sacraments ordained by Christ our Lord in the gospels, that is to say, Baptism and the Supper of the Lord: neither or which may be dispensed by any but a minister of the Word, lawfully ordained.

V. The sacraments of the Old Testament, in regard of the spiritual things thereby signified and exhibited, were, for substance, the same with those of the New.

[Gumdrop]

The Roman Catholic Church is the Mother Church of all Christendom. The Orthodox will also claim this distinction. All other Christian churches are denominations that have deviated from the original Christianity of the apostles by separating themselves into thousands of splinter groups over the past 500 years or so.

[Reagan79]

“The RCC is the only church that can trace it’s roots back all the way to Christ.”

Don’t you recognize the Eastern Orthodox Church?

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

The goal of the author of this article and myself in posting it is NOT to bash Catholics, but to expose false teaching to the light of Truth.

You're using this forum for Catholic bashing, pure and simple.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

First you must believe.

True, from our perspective. But from God's perspective, even before anyone believes, from before the foundation of the world, God has named His family.

That's why the RCC has infant baptism wrong. They believe infant baptism is their stamped ticket into heaven. Instead, infant baptism is more like God's rollcall of His covenant family. Cognition isn't required for membership. Only God's grace.

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11

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"He will bless them that fear the LORD, both small and great.

The LORD shall increase you more and more, you and your children. " -- Psalm 115:13-14

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"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call" -- Acts 2:38-39

Peter knew children would most likely not be able to truly "repent," yet still he said the promise was made by God to Christ's sheep and their families...because God has ordained the family structure as the best safeguard for His word and will.

(Which is why the movie "Juno," while being positive in that it offered an alternative to abortion, still was a fairly corrupt take on life because the meaning of "family" was practically non-existent in that film. Neither set of grandparents even considered taking in the unborn child. It was just something to be given away. And to a single woman, no less. Very sad.)

[Mad Dawg]

If, as taught the Church of Rome, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without “the new birth in baptism” ...

This is a lie, plain and simple. It is untrue. The Catholic Church does not teach that. And it is so easy to find out that it is not true that to make the claim suggested, at the very least, negligence. It is the culpable utterance of an untruth.

Move along, there's nothing to see here. Certainly there's no point in discussing an article which is based on a lie which the author need not have written.