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To: wmfights; 1000 silverlings; Lord_Calvinus; Frumanchu; Alex Murphy; AZhardliner; PAR35; Gamecock; ...
Though, the idea that the Holy Spirit indwells the baby prior to Faith is not consistent with Scripture.

But if we see baptism in the NT as the same type of covenant sign and seal that circumcision was in the OT, we can understand its meaning more fully.

The Jews in the OT were commanded by God to circumcise their children as a sign of God's election.

That's what baptism is -- a sign of God's election within the covenant family of the covenant congregation.

Baptism does not confer this election, like the RCC teaches. Instead, baptism is an acknowledgment of this election.

I can understand non-reformed Baptists believing in adult baptism because they (incorrectly) believe faith is a free-will choice men make. But I don't understand reformed Baptists insisting on adult baptism when they correctly believe their salvation by God predates their public declaration of faith and that God's election of them is the very reason for their faith in the first place.

Presbyterian churches (and no doubt others) have confirmation classes for new members and young adults entering into full participation in the congregation. This is a public testimony of their faith, and it is good and affirmative for all involved.

But it's not a sacrament.

The two sacraments most Bible-believing Christians acknowledge as God-ordained involve the same thing -- a recognition of God's predestining grace in bringing us to Him, from the beginning of our lives to our very last day on earth.

WESTMINSTER CONFESSION OF FAITH
Chapter XXVIII
Of Baptism

I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5] of remission of sins,[6] and of his giving up unto God, through Jesus Christ, to walk in the newness of life.[7] Which sacrament is, by Christ's own appointment, to be continued in His Church until the end of the world.[8]

II. The outward element to be used in this sacrament is water, wherewith the party is to be baptized, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, by a minister of the Gospel, lawfully called thereunto.[9]

III. Dipping of the person into the water is not necessary; but Baptism is rightly administered by pouring, or sprinkling water upon the person.[10]

IV. Not only those that do actually profess faith in and obedience unto Christ,[11] but also the infants of one, or both, believing parents, are to be baptized.[12]

V. Although it is a great sin to contemn or neglect this ordinance,[13] yet grace and salvation are not so inseparably annexed unto it, as that no person can be regenerated, or saved, without it:[14] or, that all that are baptized are undoubtedly regenerated.[15]

VI. The efficacy of Baptism is not tied to that moment of time wherein it is administered;[16] yet, notwithstanding, by the right use of this ordinance, the grace promised is not only offered, but really exhibited, and conferred, by the Holy Ghost, to such (whether of age or infants) as that grace belongs unto, according to the counsel of God's own will, in His appointed time.[17]

VII. The sacrament of Baptism is but once to be administered unto any person.[18]

Therefore baptism acknowledges that the Holy Ghost truly and graciously and freely inhabits every member of God's family from the moment of their birth. And at a time of God's choosing, that fact will be made known to that person by the indwelling Holy Ghost and that person will know he is part of God's eternal family...according to God's will.

All who have been given and will be given saving faith in Christ's sacrifice alone were numbered among His family from before the foundation of the world. And in God's own good time, they will know that; they will repent; they will obey; they will thank God; and they will glorify God.

Which of us reformed Christians believes the Holy Ghost is not guiding our children from their first breath?

"For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy." -- 1 Corithians 7:14


"And they brought unto him also infants, that he would touch them: but when his disciples saw it, they rebuked them.

But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein." -- Luke 18:15-17

We are either numbered among His family from before the foundation of the world, or we're not. That's just how life is.

384 posted on 02/29/2008 12:58:08 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose))
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings; Lord_Calvinus; Frumanchu; Alex Murphy; AZhardliner; PAR35; ...
Baptism does not confer this election, like the RCC teaches. Instead, baptism is an acknowledgment of this election.

I don't disagree.

But I don't understand reformed Baptists insisting on adult baptism when they correctly believe their salvation by God predates their public declaration of faith and that God's election of them is the very reason for their faith in the first place.

I am not insisting on adult Baptism if we are recognizing it is an ordinance and the saving Grace of God is not infused in the process. If it is being stated that the Holy Spirit is indwelling non believers because of the actions of a pastor/priest I am saying it is wrong.

The role of Baptism in Scripture is following Faith and is a public declaration of being a Christian. If infants are being baptized as a public declaration of their being raised in a Christian home, being the member of a Christian church I don't believe it is contradictory.

However, if the act of Baptism is claimed to infuse the Grace of God into a non believer I'm saying that is not consistent with Scripture.

388 posted on 02/29/2008 1:15:53 PM PST by wmfights (Believe - THE GOSPEL - and be saved)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
But I don't understand reformed Baptists insisting on adult baptism when they correctly believe their salvation by God predates their public declaration of faith and that God's election of them is the very reason for their faith in the first place.

We see it as an act of obedience, just as any other ordinance, so it is not required for salvation, but the doing of it and publicly brings great joy, to which I have previously attested. I see it as a great gift that the Lord graciously let me participate in.

389 posted on 02/29/2008 1:15:58 PM PST by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

***We are either numbered among His family from before the foundation of the world, or we’re not. That’s just how life is.***

I have found that sanctimonious prose like this is often found emitting from those who were on the student council in high school and never amounted to squat in the real world.

Elitism without merit and reward without deserving.

It’s a shame that you have to follow the creeds of foreign governments in order to feed your ego.


457 posted on 02/29/2008 7:35:09 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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