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To: P-Marlowe
It might end a lot of animosity between Messianics and the rest of Christianity.

We are called to be peacemakers insofar as we can, but if we were supposed to sacrifice fact and truth on the altar of peace, Christianity would never have been born.

Unless you have some really compelling evidence that both the Jews and the Christians screwed up their weekly count--for there was never any debate about which was the seventh day and which the first, just on which should be honored by rest and a special call to worship--then frankly you're just flailing around. And that's not like you, my friend; you've always been a calm, rational pursuer of the truth.

They can keep worshiping on Saturn's day. I will continue to worship on the Son's Day.

Sunday refers to the worship of the Sun in the sky, not the Son of Man, just as the other days are called Moon-day, Tyr's-day, Woden's-day, Thor's-day, Frey's-day, and Saturn-day.

But it was the seventh day, not the first, that the Almighty declared holy--special--in honor of the completion of His Creation. The modern names of the days are irrelevant to what the Bible says on the matter.

Shalom.

19 posted on 03/24/2008 12:09:44 PM PDT by Buggman (HebrewRoot.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
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To: Buggman; XeniaSt; xzins; blue-duncan
We are called to be peacemakers insofar as we can, but if we were supposed to sacrifice fact and truth on the altar of peace, Christianity would never have been born.

Lets get down to brass tacks. I know you are much more moderate than some of the other Messianics or the COG crowd or the 7th Day Adventists and all the other sects which proclaim that Christians are required to worship on Saturday. I consider this issue as peripheral. I choose not to judge any man in which day he chooses to recognize the Lord and to gather for fellowship, etc. Frankly, if you feel led to worship on Saturday, then I am more than happy for you. In fact I believe it would be wrong for YOU to violate the Sabbath inasmuch as you feel called to treat Saturday as the Sabbath and to refrain from eating of certain meats or leavened bread or whatever other ritual or tradition that the Nation of Israel was obligated as part of their covenant with the Lord to keep. If that is your calling, then praise God.

The fact of the matter is that if you and Xenia are correct and that the whole of Christianity has been in violation of the commandment of the Sabbath for 2000 years and that God requires us to keep the Sabbath as Gentile Christians, then the whole of Christianity is lost.

If in fact keeping a Saturday sabbath is not essential to our being saved, or to our sanctification or our justification before God, then your whole legalistic theology crumbles to the ground. On the other hand if it is essential to our salvation, then salvation is no longer of grace but salvation is by works.

Jesus summed up the ten commandments by dropping them into two. Love God with all your heart and soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Now, unless you are willing to state categorically that all of us Sunday worshipers are on the fast track to hell, then you are going to have to accept the idea that maybe the Saturday Sabbath requirement is a little more flexible than you have imagined. If keeping a Saturday Sabbath is a necessary soteriological ritual, then the whole of Christianity for the last 2000 years will end up in hell.

I have been called to worship on Sunday. I was saved in a Church which had Sunday worship.

I would be willing to bet my house (along with the mortgage) that both you and Xenia St were born again into churches that met and worshiped on Sunday; that somewhere along the line, after you had experienced the grace of God, you separated yourself from the fellowship of those Christians that brought you to the foot of the cross.

Now, unless you are willing to state that you were not born again until you became a Messianic Christian, then I think maybe you don't think this Saturday Sabbath is all that necessary or important either.

20 posted on 03/24/2008 12:46:37 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Buggman; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan
The bible is specific about those who worshipped on Saturday. The Apostle Paul always went there on those days to teach about the Lord Jesus to those who did not know him.

Christians, on the other hand, met on a different day for their unique worship. This being Easter season, the reason for it is obvious.

"But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, taking the spices that they had prepared. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb" (St. Luke 24, 1-2)

"Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene came to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb" (St. John 20, 1)

Joh 20:19 - On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

The Lord was raised on SonDay, as Christians are wont to think of it. (The Son Rises in the Easter(n) Direction in an interesting Anglo-Saxon word play)

Likewise, the Day of Pentecost, when the Comforter came was on: SonDay -

"You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the day after the seventh sabbath; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord. " (Leviticus 23:15-16)

7 Sabbaths + 1 = SonDay. This is evident in that the Christians were gathered together and the Jews were wandering around outside being amazed at what was transpiring....rather than being in synagogue or practicing "non-travel" rules.

Note that the Christians were all together.

"When the day of Pentecost had come, they were all together in one place." (Acts 2:1)

They had a habit as early as the first Pentecost after the Resurrection of being together on the 1st day of the week. Surely, it wasn't because the Lord had Risen on that day....could it be!

This continued through the early Church:

"7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.(Acts 20, 7).

"On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that contributions need not be made when I come" (1 Cor. 16, 2)

To all this, one must now add the words Marlowe has mentioned about not being judged on the Sabbaths that are kept, the authority of the church to "loose and bind on earth," and the words of the early Christians, like Ignatius in 110 AD, who clearly indicate that they considered SonDay their day of worship and gathering.

It makes sense: The LORD'S DAY is SonDay.

"I, John, your brother who share with you in Jesus the persecution...was on the island called Patmos...I was in the spirit on the Lord's day..." (Rev. 1, 9-10)

22 posted on 03/24/2008 6:12:55 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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