Posted on 04/24/2008 11:04:16 PM PDT by RussP
Darwin critics know Ernst Haeckel as the German philosopher whose faked embryo drawings helped generations of clueless students accept Darwinism – "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" and all that.
But there is still another problem with Haeckel, a darker one than mere fraud. Critics of the Ben Stein film, "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed," apparently do not know this.
If they had, they would not have savaged Stein for daring to connect Adolf Hitler to Charles Darwin. In Scientific American, for instance, editor John Rennie describes this connection as "heavy-handed." In Reuters, Frank Scheck calls it "truly offensive."
In reality, it is neither. If anything, Stein and the makers of "Expelled" understate this historically irrefutable link, and the key to understanding it is Haeckel.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
How then can he be said to exist by definition of "exist"?
What characteristics does God have?
The existance of anything can be determined if properly defined scientifically.
I have to go to bed. It's 4:45 here in Pittsburgh. goodnight! and thanks for an interesting debate.
Exist is not limited to “detectable by the senses and their extensions”. This is again the self-imposed limitation of scientific empiricism. The view you state is called scientism - a logically unsupportable view.
Exists in the larger sense means is real. Exists in reality. It is not limited to matter (neither do things that exist for science of course). We can know things exist, are real, by different methods. If you look a bit, you can see the line between those that can be known by science, those that can’t be known by science, but can be known by logic.
The next sphere transcends logic, these are things we know as absolutes (logic can only be used to know conditional or relative truths and values.)
This is the level you, speaking about you personally here, know things about, but you don’t yet see that you know them using knowledge beyond science or logic.
:)
Goodnight. And my thanks to you also.
What characteristics does God have?
The common consensus among religions is: Goodness, Truth, Beauty.
——So has God and Christ been used to justify bigotry——
No, God and Christ have been misused to justify bigotry.
The Nazis used Darwinian evolution to justify bigotry.
“No offense, but you have just produced a pretty good definition of what it means to exist. Is there an alternate definition you would like to use for God?”
No offense to you but the concept of God, sort of implies that necessity. So your statement is rather sophomoric.
My point is that NOBODY can come up with a SINGLE pronouncement made in PUBLIC where a Nazi leader used Evolutionary rhetoric to inflame hatred against Jews. Therefore when speaking of what justification was used to “sell” the Nazis on the idea of the Holocaust it might be important to listen to the actual words used in public by their leaders when speaking to them about why they hated Jews. Not what secrets might have lain deep in their heart, the actual words to justify mass murder. It seems Hitler spoke about avenging “the blood upon the cross” many times in public to Nazis, and never said “Darwin told me we need to kill Jews”.
So can you come up with a single speech or pamphlet that contemporaneously links Evolutionary theory with Jew hatred. It sure seems easy to find speeches, pamphlets and news-articles published and spoken by Nazi leaders where they used “Christian” rhetoric to inflame Jew hatred.
My other point is that the Nazi's were from a long line of Jew killers, and Jew killing went on for a looooooong time in Europe before Darwin ever published his theory. Seems nobody needed the “evolutionary excuse” for Jew hatred in history, why would the Nazi's require it? Neither has anyone provided a single example where they used it.
So my point is that your argument is stupid on its face, unbacked up by evidence, and that the Nazi's were more influenced by historic Jew hatred and their twisted version of Christianity (as supported by the historic record) than they ever were by any Scientific theory.
It is you who is throwing sand, mud and feces and seeing what will stick. So far you've got nothing.
Can you provide a single Public quote of a Nazi leader using Evolutionary rhetoric to inflame Jew hatred?
............................?????
Can you? A single example?
Sorry about the double post, especially with such a huge and disturbing image.
Check out the buck teeth.
http://www.library.northwestern.edu/govinfo/collections/wwii-posters/img/ww1647-37.jpg
Do you contend that THESE images were motivated by adherence to Evolutionary theory?
This one directly depicts our enemies as Gorillas abducting a helpless white woman.
http://web.mala.bc.ca/davies/H482.WWI/poster.US.DestroyThisMadBrute.jpg
Larger version of the same image where you can see the German helmet on the Gorilla abducting the helpless woman.
If they really believed it, they'd consider the fact that they lost the war evidence of the inferiority of the Aryan race.
“Was that also motivated by Evolutionary thought. . . .” My understanding is that it was, at least to a certain extent. Social Darwinism was not exclusive to one side of the Atlantic. The Nazis even looked to the American eugenics movement (which was popular before WW2) as a model for their own society.
“I thought we were all supposed to pretend ID has no connection to religion.”
Read Job chapter 38 (here’s a bit of it - 1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said, 2 “Who is this that darkens counsel By words without knowledge? 3 “Now gird up your loins like a man, And I will ask you, and you instruct Me! 4 “Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell {Me,} if you have understanding, 5 Who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? 6 “On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, ... keep reading)
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