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The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments?
Fisheaters | n/a | n/a

Posted on 04/30/2008 7:47:49 AM PDT by Pyro7480

Some Protestants accuse the Catholic Church of having dropped one of the 10 Commandments. "You're idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!"

The truth, of course, is that the Catholic Church did not and could not change the Ten Commandments. Latin Catholics and Protestants simply list them differently. It is incredible that such a pernicious lie could be so easily spread and believed, especially since the truth could easily be determined by just looking into the matter. But the rumor lives.

Now, below are the ways in which Protestants and Roman Catholics enumerate the Commandments:

[See link above or below]

So what the heck? What did happen to the commandment about graven images in the Catholic listing? Did the Church just "drop" a commandment?

Um, no. The Old Testament was around long before the time of the Apostles, and the Decalogue, which is found in three different places in the Bible (Exodus 20 and Exodous 34 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21), has not been changed by the Catholic Church. Chapter and verse divisions are a medieval invention, however, and numbering systems of the Ten Words (Commandments), the manner in which they are grouped, and the "short-hand" used for them, vary among various religious groups. Exodus 20 is the version most often referred to when one speaks of the Ten Commandments, so it will be our reference point here....


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; General Discusssion; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; christianity; tencommandments
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This was one of the lies that was repeated by the anti-Catholic "Christians" who were popped up during the Papal visit.
1 posted on 04/30/2008 7:47:49 AM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480
Oops! The link to the full article is:

The Catholic Church Changed The Ten Commandments?

2 posted on 04/30/2008 7:48:58 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; StAthanasiustheGreat; ..

Catholic ping!


3 posted on 04/30/2008 7:49:39 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: Pyro7480
Related link:

The True Ten Commandments: A Catholic Apologia for their Content and Arrangement

4 posted on 04/30/2008 7:51:06 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: Pyro7480

God did the Top Ten list about 4000 years before Letterman was born.


5 posted on 04/30/2008 7:54:02 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Religion Moderator

Thanks if it was you who inserted the needed links into my thread. :-D


6 posted on 04/30/2008 7:56:31 AM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: Pyro7480

“You’re idolators! You worship statues! And because you do, your Church dropped the commandment against graven images!”

I won’t waste the time of day refuting such nonsense. Everytime that I have debated individuals on this it turns out that they are not particularly interested in the truth, but have their own agendas.

Many Christians that I know will patiently listen to my explanation that we don’t “pray to statues” or, for that matter, pray “to saints and dead people” and simply give me an “oh, I didn’t know that.”


7 posted on 04/30/2008 7:58:46 AM PDT by incredulous joe
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To: DManA

And much more meaningful too right?

Thank you. You receive my award for “Post of the Day!!!”


8 posted on 04/30/2008 8:01:17 AM PDT by cubreporter
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To: incredulous joe

So, what are Catholic people doing when they appear to be praying to Saints? I ask because all of the devout Catholics that I have met have been wonderfull people and the Catholic church has done a better job on social issues than most protestant churches. But as a protestant some of the Catholic practices seem a little strange to me. Especially the Mary veneration which always seemed like idolotry.


9 posted on 04/30/2008 8:03:57 AM PDT by dschapin
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To: dschapin

We pray to saints asking for their intercession with The Almighty.

At this very moment, I am wearing a St. Anthony’s medal.

I pray to the Blessed Mother every morning by saying three “Hail Mary’s(not the pass).”

There’s nothing nefarious about this practice. It is an ancient one within the church.

Many of my non-Catholic friends are always happy to hear that I remember them in prayers to the saints for assistance in their lives - especially the ill or troubled.


10 posted on 04/30/2008 8:10:23 AM PDT by RexBeach
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To: Pyro7480

Great post, but given what I’ve seen on FR whenever the Church is addressed... I can only predict great things for this thread. ;) I sometimes think that when it comes to the Church, FR nearly rivals DU for its sheer antipathy.


11 posted on 04/30/2008 8:16:59 AM PDT by manapua
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most protestants, in this regard, are agitators who set up strawmen, some willingly, some out of ignorance, and sometimes it is hard to talk with them about His true One Holy CATHOLIC and Apostolic church, but you try, just the same, even if just to plant a seed...

and lots of prayer to water it....


12 posted on 04/30/2008 8:18:01 AM PDT by raygunfan
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To: RexBeach

Thanks for the explanation. Do you know if there is any Biblical support for this practice?


13 posted on 04/30/2008 8:18:51 AM PDT by dschapin
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To: dschapin
You're probably going to get a lot of posts in response to your questions - hope you're ready! But, here are the logical/Biblical steps why we "pray" to Saints. Note pray is in quotes - here, it is used in the Classical English sense, in the sense of asking. E.g. "What, pray tell, are you talking about?"
  1. Are Christians told to pray for each other? Yes.
  2. Are the prayers of especially Holy people more effective? Yes.
  3. Are the people who fall asleep in Christ alive in Him in Heaven? Yes.
  4. Can Heaven hear the words of people on Earth? Yes.

Ok, now that we've got that in front of us, we consider our prayers to Saints, asking them to help us bring our petitions to God, no different than the various prayer threads posted on FR every day. And the reason Mary is the greatest advocate is because she is the Mother of God, and Jesus, as a devout Jew, honored (and continues to honor) His Mother. I'm gone for most of the day, but if you'd like to keep talking about this (and 500 other people can't answer all your questions) I am happy to!

14 posted on 04/30/2008 8:19:41 AM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: Pyro7480

The fundamentalist types have all kinds of weird ideas about what goes on in Catholic Mass.

Among the weirdest was Jack Chick’s assertation that the IHS (Iesus Hominum Salvator-—Jesus, Savior of Men) on Communion wafers really means “Isis, Horus and Seb” (the first two were pagan deities in ancient egypt, which he claimed that Catholics were actually worshipping. I have never even heard of Seb. The other charge is transparently ridiculous, but many of the fundamentalist crew believe it or things like it)


15 posted on 04/30/2008 8:20:19 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: dschapin

I think the confusion comes with the word, “Pray”.
I talk to the saints the same way I talk to my dead mother.

I have been asking St. Monica to intercede for me to Our Lord about my Goddaughter who turned Wiccan. Yesterday she called me and said she is joining a church. WooooHooooo!

It’s a “two people praying together” type thing.


16 posted on 04/30/2008 8:20:19 AM PDT by netmilsmom (I am very mad at Disney. Give me my James Marsden song!!!!!)
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To: cubreporter
How about this?

Top 10 signs humans still don't get it.

1. They are still fighting about where to put the numbers in the 10 commandments.

17 posted on 04/30/2008 8:20:32 AM PDT by DManA
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To: dschapin

A very, very good question. I really don’t know. I’ve never thought of that question.

I’ll ask St. Anthony! :)


18 posted on 04/30/2008 8:22:33 AM PDT by RexBeach
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To: manapua
I can only predict great things for this thread. ;)

Oh,yeah, big time. I can think of a couple that will have a field day with this thread ... except that field days are for those with idle hands, I think. But they'll go nuts on the whole graven images and idoltry stuff. And then they'll ask you to explain stuff, when they're really saying, "Give me an opening to spew . . . "

Yup. Gotta check this thread out again tonight to see how it turned out.

19 posted on 04/30/2008 8:23:20 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a Liberal when I married her)
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To: thefrankbaum

Ok, I think I understand the distinction that you are making between prayer as a petition and prayer as worship. And it certainly would make sense to me to ask a living (on earth) Christian to pray for someone. However, when you talk to someone who is dead isn’t that similar to the seance type of thing that we are not supposed to be involved with. Kind of like what Saul got in trouble with when he tried to have the Witch of Endor call up Samuel so that he could ask his advice. I am not trying to be hostile - you gave me a great answer to my first question and I do genuinly want to hear a Catholic perspective on this.


20 posted on 04/30/2008 8:31:23 AM PDT by dschapin
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