Posted on 05/06/2008 10:18:16 AM PDT by Utah Girl
The historian for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints took issue Monday with a New York Times opinion piece comparing FLDS polygamists in Texas to 19th century Mormons.
In a statement released Monday, church historian Elder Marlin K. Jensen took exception to author Timothy Egan's portrayal in the Times.
"Mr. Egan's cavalier comparison of FLDS polygamy practices with those of 19th century Latter-day Saints is historically unsupported and simply wrong," wrote Elder Jensen, a member of the church's Quorums of Seventy. "By implication, he also unfairly impugns the integrity of all Latter-day Saint marriages and families, the very institutions they hold most dear."
In a piece posted on the Times Web site April 23, Egan called the polygamists in west Texas "1870s Stepford wives" and "men with their low monotones and pious, seeming disregard for the law on child sex." And Egan drew parallels between present-day FLDS members and 1800s Mormons.
In his response, Elder Jensen wrote, "The conditions surrounding the practice of polygamy in Texas today bear little resemblance to the plural marriage practiced by Mormons more than a century ago," he said. "As thoughtful historians know, a serious study of history does not impose contemporary understandings and sensibilities onto an interpretation of earlier time periods."
Elder Jensen also said Egan's tacit claim that 19th century Mormon women were subservient and backward was false. Women played an integral part in LDS culture, held jobs and were politically active, Elder Jensen said.
"For a long time ... the church was at odds with basic American ideals, and not just because old guys sanctioned marital sex with dozens of teenage girls," Egan wrote. "What you see in Texas — in small part — is a look back at some of the behavior of Mormonism's founding fathers."
"Smith was fortunate enough to find a religious cover for his desire," Egan continued. "His polygamy 'revelation' was put into The Doctrine and Covenants, one of three sacred texts of Mormonism."
In his response, Elder Jensen wrote that men and women often married at a younger age than might be considered acceptable today. A girl marrying at 15 was not uncommon and the common-law marriage age for women was 12, he said. Women were not forced into marriages and divorces were "readily granted," Elder Jensen wrote.
Attempts Monday night to contact Egan for comment were unsuccessful.
Online:
• Column by New York Times Op-Extra columnist Timothy Egan (April 23)
• Response by Elder Marlin K. Jensen, Church Historian, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (May 5)
No, I certainly make snide comments from time to time, especially in subthreads whose entire context is making snide comments.
I certainly wouldn’t want to be accused of trying to read someone’s mind, after all. — at least not twice in one day.
“I think we all do a lot of lecturing, telling other freepers what they should do instead of what they are doing.”
So what do you think is the best way to stop it?
“Yet that’s exactly how you’re using the statistics you’re citing for time periods when the average marriage age was 20.”
Which time periods are those when the average marriage age was 20?
Yes, I had to go to a HOA meeting, which went over 2 hours.
Plus, my life’s goal isn’t to read and answer all of your posts. Sorry.
Why? The nice thing about a forum is that you can choose what to read and what to ignore.
I’ve never been particularly bothered by people who tell me what I should do. I care about people who misrepresent my opinions, or who falsely accuse me of being or supporting things.
And I care when people post incorrect information, if they present it as fact.
Even that Mormon link says it was rare. The average age for marriage in the U.S. in 1850 was 22 as shown in the chart in post 35.
Your Mormon page pointed out that marriage laws allowed a girl of ten to marry in England, but it did not mention that in 1850 in England and Wales the average marriage age for single women (first marriage) was 24.71 as the government chart shows in post 38.
From your link:
“For young women, marriage in the early to mid teens was rare, but not unheard of as both the anecdotal and statistical evidence above show.”
According to the table you posted, 1650 and 1950. Needless to say, geographical variations within any given time period are also very large. In the US Census data for 2000-2003 broken out by state, there’s a range of over 8 years for the different state averages.
So right now we are at 1650 and 1950.
That would be BYU Mormon historian Kathryn Daynes. "Her findings include the fact that the percentage of Utah women who married at all was always significantly higher than the national average, the age at which women married was significantly lower than the national norm,"
" Daynes divides her demographic analysis into three periods: 1847 to 1869, Utah's frontier period; 1870 to 1890, years that encompassed the consolidation of settlement and the abandonment of polygamy; and 1890 to 1910, when Mormon marriage patterns moved closer to those of mainstream America. She also classifies the women whose first marriages took place in Utah into three "cohorts," according to the years they were born. Her findings include the fact that the percentage of Utah women who married at all was always significantly higher than the national average, the age at which women married was significantly lower than the national norm, and immigrant women were more likely to enter plural marriages than American-born women. A surprising 36.9 percent of all women's first marriages during the initial period were into polygamy, but this declined to 10.6 percent in the second period. Daynes also found that 24.9 percent of Manti's population lived in polygamous families in 1850, 43.1 percent in 1860, 36 percent in 1870, 25.1 percent in 1880, and 7.1 percent in 1890"
http://www.historycooperative.org/cgi-bin/justtop.cgi?act=justtop&url=http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/ahr/108.4/br_59.html
“According to the table you posted, 1650 and 1950. Needless to say, geographical variations within any given time period are also very large. In the US Census data for 2000-2003 broken out by state, there’s a range of over 8 years for the different state averages.”
Post 129 and post 54 give an idea of some of that range that you mention, as you can see Utah was well below the national average according to the Mormon expert.
“I certainly wouldn’t want to be accused of trying to read someone’s mind, after all.”
Well, speak for yourself. I pretty much am forced to read minds most of the time on these ‘intense’ threads.
First, there’s the FREEPER POSTING DEBILITY problem.
Then there’s the runon thought neverending sentences.
Next is the misinterpretation, due to the lack of facial expressions, tone, inflection, hand movements, etc.
Sometimes it’s the bad communications skills.
But it’s never me. (liar)
The worst thing is long posts. I really hate that.
Some people just go on, and on, and on, and you just want to tell them “ENOUGH ALREADY, CAN I TALK?”
Brevity is truly one of the keys to communication.
Just wish I could remember that.
In explaining a passage from the Book of Mormon, late LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie wrote,
It is also to the Book of Mormon to which we turn for the plainest description of the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church. Nephi saw this “church which is most abominable above all other churches” in vision. He “saw the devil that he was the foundation of it” and also the murders, wealth, harlotry, persecutions, and evil desires that historically have been a part of this satanic organization. (1 Ne. 13:1-10)He saw that this most abominable of all churches was founded after the day of Christ and his apostles; that it took away from the gospel of the lamb many covenants and many plain and precious parts; that it perverted the right ways of the Lord; that it deleted many teachings from the Bible; that this church was the “mother of harlots;”… (1 Ne. 13:24-42)
Nephi beheld further that this church was the “mother of abominations,” and “the whore of all the earth”… (Mormon Doctrine, 1958 edition, page 130)
Later in the same book Apostle McConkie expanded on the doctrine a bit:
…speaking of harlots in the figurative sense, [Nephi] designated the Catholic Church as “the mother of harlots” (1 Nephi 13:34; 14:15-17), a title which means that the protestant churches, the harlot daughters which broke off from the great and abominable church, would themselves be apostate churches.” (ibid., page 315)
“I am intrigued by the term “worthy members”.
So are you telling me there are secret practices of lds that only certain people are allowed to know?
That is one of the classic points of cults. SECRECY “
“And I care when people post incorrect information, if they present it as fact.”
Never happens.
“Plus, my life’s goal isn’t to read and answer all of your posts.”
Gee... I just can’t go on living, if that’s true.
When discussing brevity, you are speaking to the wrong man.
LOL. Is it bedtime yet? Just finished writing my column. 3:30am.
“When discussing brevity, you are speaking to the wrong man.”
MOST HUMBLE COMMENT of the NIGHT! (from anyone).
And you iz rite. Time to say g’nite.
P.S.
Don’t let anybody know we were having a decent conversation.
I wouldn’t want the word to get around, and ruin my rep.
You, long-winded supporter of the law and constitutional rights!
: )
“The nice thing about a forum is that you can choose what to read and what to ignore.”
Which may be why others won’t answer your questions.
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