Count me among those who don’t really understand, Kolokotronis. If the bishop was Eastern Orthodox, that would be one thing, but given that he was in a church you ALREADY presumably believe to be disobedient, why would you care whether or not he hops from one disobedient church to the other? Why would you care if he’s disobeying a disobedient superior? It all sounds rather petty to me.
In any case, if you all believe that Rome would ever refuse communion to any individual or group of individuals who are willing to accept her teachings and enter into her, we might as well give up right now. She would not and could not any more than Noah would have refused a person who wanted to go onto the Ark and save himself from the flood. It has nothing to do with an intrusion in anyone’s affairs; it has to do with a group of people wanting to enter into the Church and the Church not refusing. If this bishop had wanted to enter into communion with the Orthodox Church would her bishops have said, “Ah, well, no. That’s bad politics. Just keep being in schism, thank you.” This makes not a bit of sense to me. Maybe the theologies of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are more different than I thought.
“If the bishop was Eastern Orthodox, that would be one thing, but given that he was in a church you ALREADY presumably believe to be disobedient, why would you care whether or not he hops from one disobedient church to the other? Why would you care if he’s disobeying a disobedient superior? It all sounds rather petty to me.”
But we don’t believe that the Oriental Orthodox are disobedient, CH. By economia, we can receive the sacraments in their churches and they in ours. This is not at all true with Romans as they are not allowed to receive the sacraments in either the orthodox or the Oriental Orthodox Churches. The Oriental Orthodox are members of The Church, The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. They are not “ecclesial groups”. Rome grabbing for a disobedient hierarch and thereby frustrating canonical discipline is just too typical of Rome as we see things. This was a very stupid thing to do if Rome honestly means to pursue reunion on any basis other than total submission and subjugation to Rome.
“In any case, if you all believe that Rome would ever refuse communion to any individual or group of individuals who are willing to accept her teachings and enter into her, we might as well give up right now.”
I think that’s an excellent idea. These reunion talks are getting out of hand anyway. Heaven knows there is little enough enthusiasm for submission among the Orthodox. I wonder how long Roman churches will be allowed to function in, say, Russia, after Rome announces a willingness to accept any apostate Orthodox hierarch. :)
“Maybe the theologies of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are more different than I thought.”
“If this bishop had wanted to enter into communion with the Orthodox Church would her bishops have said, “Ah, well, no. That’s bad politics. Just keep being in schism, thank you.””
Now? Yes, I suspect that’s exactly what they would have said. 25 years ago it might have been different.
No, the theologies are very close. Its the medieval Frankish ecclesiology of the Roman Church which is at odds with the rest of The Church and therein lies, as it has for 1000 years, the rub.