"What all this about a Goy crisis? I don't get it. Jewish people don't need goys -- they're going fine all by themselves, aren't they? What? Oh! That's different.
Nevermind."
Posted on 05/12/2008 8:44:35 AM PDT by Alouette
(IsraelNN.com) A new study carried out at Brandeis University finds that as the liberal Jewish community empowers its women, its men appear to be losing interest in their Jewishness.
According to a report in JTA, which publishes parts of the study, "outside the Orthodox world, men are becoming less and less engaged in every aspect of Jewish life, from the home to the synagogue to communal organizations. Numerous studies show that fewer boys than girls go to non-Orthodox youth groups, religious schools or summer camps, fewer go into the rabbinate and cantorate, and fewer serve on synagogue or federation committees.
This comes as women and girls in the liberal movements are benefiting from a host of programs and initiatives aimed at increasing their Jewish involvement, from gender-neutral prayer books to the popular Jewish identity-building program for teenage girls, 'Rosh Hodesh: It’s a Girl Thing.'"
Sociologist Sylvia Barack Fishman authored the study, which is called “The Growing Gender Imbalance in American Jewish Life” and will be available online June 1 at www.brandeis.edu/hbi.
Tough news for feminists Using hundreds of interviews she conducted for the American Jewish Committee and data from the 2000-2001 National Jewish Population Study, Fishman and her student co-author Daniel Parmer describe an American Jewish life "increasingly populated by women." Female dominance is especially apparent within the Reform movement, where the numbers of boys in post bar-mitzvah religious schools, youth groups and summer camps are declining, more than half of the recently ordained rabbis are women, and all this year’s entering cantorial students are female.
While noting that feminist scholars have a hard time accepting the idea of a “boy crisis” in liberal Judaism, Fishman is not apologetic: “As soon as you say that women dominate certain aspects of Jewish life, it sounds as if you’re saying, 'Let’s go back to the way things were.' That’s not the point of my research, but we need to look at what’s happening and be honest about it,” she told JTA.
Her report also suggests that as Jewish men outside the Orthodox fold become increasingly estranged from religious and communal life, they are more likely to marry non-Jewish women. She concludes that "the boy crisis in liberal Judaism is leading to a continuity crisis that will not be resolved until liberal Judaism finds a way to engage its boys and men."
Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.
I’m not Jewish and I’m speaking only from my experience, but it seems that when women are “allowed” to become more active in things where they had previously not been active, the ones who lead the charge are the ones with an axe to grind.
For example, I’m Catholic and while I am not completely opposed to female clergy, and I am opposed to most of the females who currently want to be priests.
"What all this about a Goy crisis? I don't get it. Jewish people don't need goys -- they're going fine all by themselves, aren't they? What? Oh! That's different.
Nevermind."
LOL!
I’m not Jewish either, but I think you’re right. There’s a good analogy with both Protestant and Catholic experience. It’s mostly the feminists who have pushed for women clergy and priests. This is not to say that some of them may not be sincere in their dedication to their churches and vocations, but I’m afraid that all too many go into these “professions” because they want woman power. Their chief motivation is to prove themselves equal to or better than men.
As for Catholics, I think the decision to allow altar girls was a poor one. It was allowable, but unwise. First, because it rewarded dissidents, who used altar girls before the Church gave permission; second, because it tends to be a feminist thing for the parents, if not for the girls themselves; and third, because one of the chief ways in which young men have always found their vocations as priests is serving at the altar as young boys. Now the girls are crowding them out and, superficially at least, changing the meaning of what it means to serve at the altar during Mass.
In traditional Judaism, young men have always gathered together under a teacher to study the scriptures and learn their religion. Women were equally religious, but took a separate path. (No one who knows any Jewish women of the old school would imagine that it was an inferior path.) Mixing the two together is not generally a good idea. Not that women should not study scripture and its interpretation, too. But not in a way that crowds out the young men and makes them feel inferior or awkward. And not in a way that repudiates thousands of years of tradition.
If Jewish liberals publish a study admitting that Jewish liberalism is in deep doodoo, it means they are desperate and can no longer deny what has been obvious for a long time.
Or until you get rid of LIBERALISM!
I don't think this is peculiar to Judaism, Christianity has the same problem.
At its core, the ONLY deity that liberalism acknowledges is the human mind and their ONLY moral code is secular humanism mixed with moral relativism. This is completely incompatible with traditional Judeo-Christian teaching and beliefs.
That picture reminds me of a character on Seinfeld (Pre bald)
This process is known as emasculation.
That may be true to some extent, but a MAN would never stand still for the knife, literally or figuratively, to be utilized.
Most of the feminists are down for the struggle, but have little idea of what to do when the get what they have striven for. They do not cope with the unintended consequences. They want every institution to be as it was when the men were dominate; they just want pants. Well, it doesn’t work that way. Men are a needed positive force in society, notwithstanding the feminists’ protestations and the overwhelming majority of ads on TV.
Many men have just taken their ball(s) and gone elsewhere to play.
Feminism has always been a leftist tool to undermine religion by attacking the traditional family.
If “Judaism” means Torah (and that’s what it means if it means anything), then “liberal Judaism” is a contradiction in terms.
No cause and effect here. Move along.
Exactly! This happens across the board when groups (women, homosexuals, etc.) start militating for entree to things previously closed to them---they do tend to be the militants and this begins to make others lose interest.
The more the endeavor was associated with masculinity, the more men lose interest when someone who may only be making a political statement engages in the endeavor. Such as becoming a fighter pilot. It devalues the endeavor socially (and, here, spiritually) for men if it becomes too much about PC identity politics.
It would make an interesting research project to document the effect of feminization on various social endeavors-—college, you mention. I have seen it in other ways.
Today I think law schools are more than 50% female. That has changed the type of guy who is interested in becoming a lawyer.
Pediatricians more and more are women. Fewer men are attracted to the specialty.
The list goes on.
Exactly. I have said this same thing many times about the military.
The same thing is happening in Christian circles. While I cannot speak for Jews, the worship and the way men are pressured to act in many Christian circles around the planet has becom feminized. It doesn’t attract men any more.
“This process is known as emasculation.”
Exactly. The problem with these situations is that the women who want to get on board the train immediately start trying to change the train. So programs get feminized with emphasis on feelings rather than logic, on inclusiveness rather than correctness, on social rather than educational programs. When this proves successful, the feminists in these programs turn to feminizing God. And all of this drives the typical males away.
In our church the men and women study the same lessons. During our three hours of religious study and worship time, everyone worships together for 1.25 hours. Then the adults and children meet separately for the remainder of the time with men and women studying scripture together for 45 minutes and the final hour being spent separated between men and women. During the separate times we study exactly the same lessons and scriptures but the takes (as discovered in talking with my husband) are often totally different according to the sexes. I think it is a good balance and we have little imbalance between men and women in church attendance.
As an old-line feminist who is Catholic and has no problem whatever with an all male clergy, I think it’s more likely that the men are ‘fading away’ because they demand to be in total control of the whole outfit or they’re not gonna play. There is a thread elsewhere in which men whine that wimmin are “taking over” at medical and vet schools and more Girls are attending and graduating from universities. Is that because men CAN’T compete or because they WON’T compete? You tell me.
I think it’s sad that men respond to the presence of successful women in all fields with kicking and screaming and stomping off in a huff. Seems kinda girly to me....
Where in this article does it mention kicking and screaming and stomping off in a huff?
I thought it meant Tribe of Judah.
I think... you’re wrong. I think your statement about men requiring total control or they won’t play is like saying whites shouldn’t be allowed to move out of neighborhoods if minority crime becomes rampant. It’s even reminiscent of saying that if women wear miniskirts they’re asking to be raped. The problem with your logic is you’re confusing the way things are with the way things ought to be, or the way you’d like them to be.
Fact: If crime goes up, the gentry are going to move out.
Fact: If women wear revealing clothing and go out in unsafe locations alone, they’re more likely to be raped.
Fact: You take the specialness out of being a Priest, make it seem like a job for fags, make it seem like even if you aren’t one everybody will think you are and won’t want you around their children to boot... we’ll you’ve just killed the odds of getting good, strong, manly role models like Fr. Corapi into the priesthood.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Definitely one of my favorite characters, along with her alter-ego Roseanne Roseannadanna. :-D
Whose whining now? Deal with it.
Actually, all Israelites may be called "Jews" because of the verbal root. "Judah" comes from the verb meaning "to greatfully acknowledge" or "to thank," and every Israelite is a living acknowledgment of HaShem. Note that Mordekhai, though from the tribe of Benjamin, is called "Mordekhai HaYehudi."
I was talking with someone yesterday who was saying that most Isrealis are something called Ashkanazi (sp?) jews, or something like that, and he said they are not real Hebrews because they are from Europe. I’d never heard of what he was talking about and didn’t really take him seriously. Anyone know what he was talking about or was it just a hater making stuff up?
You friend is peddling the Khazar theory of origin for Ashkenazi Jews. this theory holds that most Ashkenazi Jews are not descended from Rhineland Jews expelled during the Crusades, but from the Khazars, a Oghur Turkic people, some of whose leadership did convert. Although linguistics and simple history precludes this, this was a theory peddled by some Hugarian Jews (they wanted to be seen as inheritors of the Khabars, as Khazar group that joined the Magyars, thus making them authentic Hungarians) as well as communists, the Judeophobic right, and Islamist and Arab Nationalists. However, genetic testing has shown the opposite. Not only are Ashkenazi Jews related primarily to other Jews, but we are exceeding endogomous. Most Eastern European Jews are descended from just 4 women and are genetically very similar to Sephardic Jews. This is not to say that there was no intermarriage. In fact, there was quite a bit, especially with Sorbs and Ruthenians.
Personally, I am descended from Khazars, in part, if family lore can be believed. My anscestors fought the Caliphate from 640 until 737, keeping Islam out of Europe in 3 bloody wars that mad Tours look like a little raid.
Considering that non-Orthodox Jews have redefined Judaism to mean the exact opposite of what it actually means, it could hardly be otherwise.
The biggest scandal is actually the silence of the Orthodox leadership in this situation.
That's pure unadulterated hooey. 'Ashkenaz is the old Hebrew name of Germany and 'Ashkenazim simply means "German Jews." It refers to Jews of northern, central, and eastern Europe (those with German or slavic surnames and who speak Yiddish). Furthermore, 'Ashkenazi Hebrew and the 'Ashkenazi ritual come from 'Eretz Yisra'el while those of the allegedly "purer" Sefaradim (which simply means "Spanish Jews") comes from 'Eretz Bavel (Babylon). Sefardi Hebrew is also more influenced by the Mishnah and by Aramaic than 'Ashkenazi Hebrew.
Sefaradim (and Temanim, the Yemenite Jews) have a reputation as more "authentic" because they have lived so long in the Middle East, yet they are the historical liberals of Judaism (prior to the European "enlightenment"). Moreover whatever "Khazars" or "Sabbatians" there are are more likely to be found among Levantine Sefaradim than among European 'Ashkenazim.
Unfortunately, it is among 'Ashkenazim of the past two hundred plus years that all the leftist "reform" movements have taken hold and this has distorted their image and made Sefaradim seem more conservative.
This is the truth. But most people who spout the "'Ashkenazim aren't real Jews" line simply want to believe this and cannot be persuaded otherwise. Most ironic since the Babylonian Talmud, the bete noire of so many anti-Semites, was written by the ancestors of the Sefaradim (the ancestors of the 'Ashkenazim wrote the Jerusalem Talmud!).
You know, Khazar is almost always heard in a negative context, so I was surprised to hear several different Turks (including Turkmen) use it in a positive way on separate occasions. Basically it went, “We love Jews because they are Khazars.” & “Khazars are Turkic people, so Jews are our brothers.” Never heard it used as a compliment by anyone else.
Some Sabbateans became Turks after the converted to Islam. Some crypto-Sabbateans became "Donme", but they have nothing to do with Khazars.
"This is the truth. But most people who spout the "'Ashkenazim aren't real Jews" line simply want to believe this and cannot be persuaded otherwise. "
Entirely try. Kevin Brooks refuted the argument before the genetic information was in, but antisemites have the gall to cite his book as a source, while ignoring its content.
2. Long story. Turks in Turkey and Iraq are descended from a group of Oghuz/Ghuzz Turks known as the Seljuks. The Ghuzzia or the Ghuz confederacy was an allied tributary of the Khazars, having been inherited from the Gokturkut. As the Khazars declined, most Ghuzz rebeled but the Kınık tribe stayed loyal. The last Khazar installed governor was Seljuk. His progeny led a dynasty, the Seljuk Turks eventually conquered Persia, Mesopatamia, and most of Anatolia.
Thanks for the corrections. I didn’t mean to mislead anyone. My intention was to defend the ‘Ashkenazim, who are so often accused of being “Khazars” or not “real Israelites.”
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.