JESUS THE CHRIST - THE MERIDIAN OF TIME. Chapter 6 (LDS)

LDS.org ^ | James E. Talmage

[fproy2222]

Why is it that the people who study the Bible come up with different answers to the question of the number of persons in the God Head?
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There is no verse in the Bible listing the number of persons in the Godhead ...

However Christians accept the verse...

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

as the Trinity..

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So, to you, both ideas are OK?

They describe the same God?

[fproy2222]

What is your idea about what the beginning was the beginning of?

and

What happened before the “beginning”?
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God said this to Moses who wrote the words down...

In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth Genesis 1:1

Before the beginning...

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep Genesis 1:2a

John continued the same theme when he said..

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Jhn 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Jhn 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Jhn 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Jhn 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:1-5

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So, we both believe that Christ was with God before the beginning?

[sevenbak]

In the begining, God... Genesis 1:1

The Hebrew word for God is Elohim and is PLURAL

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Careful, someone might confuse you with a Mormon.

You forgot an important reference in Genesis 1:

Genesis 1: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: .

US, OUR, OUR... Plural. You are absolutely correct.

Still no "one in substance"

[sevenbak]

Jesus is the Word of God and was there in the begining...

Nothing was created that Jesus was not a part of...

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

 

I agree with all three statemnets, 100 percent. You really are sounding LDS. I don't think that was your intent. ;-)

3 Nephi 9:15 Behold, I am Jesus Christ the Son of God. I created the heavens and the earth, and all things that in them are. I was with the Father from the beginning.

[sevenbak]

Jesus said

I and my Father are one. John 10:30
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I did an hasty photoshop job of this a couple days ago. This seems like a good time to post this.

What does is mean that Jesus and the Father are one?

No, this is not a Beast spoken of in Revelations. It's an ancient Apostle with 12 heads, 20 arms and 20 legs.

John 17:
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

[sevenbak]

Very in-depth read on on the Book of Abraham.

Book of Abraham, Fraud or sacred scripture:

http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_Abraham.shtml

[Graybeard58]

Aren't you the guy that posted the nonsense about Joseph Smith's statement about Quakers on the Moon might be true because the Apollo Astronauts may have landed in an unpopulated section of the Moon?

Actually, two people (at least) did that, without attribution to the original "moonbat".

[Graybeard58]

Thank you for your excellent posts.

[sevenbak]

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form... (Col. 2:9)

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First off, I am using the KJV, it does make a difference.

“’For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.’

Not bodily form.

This is the closest anyone has gotten to actually show scripturally the doctrine of “one in substance”.

Still no sale. I know some here have interpreted this passage to mean that the Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Ghost—are the same person, or three persons in one. However, Paul here is anxious to combat the heretical notion that Christ was not a physical being and that his bodily suffering, death, and resurrection were only fictional. In countering this, and in order to emphasize the supremacy of the Savior above man and angels, Paul teaches that the fullness of the Godhead’s glory, honor, and power is in Christ physically, or bodily—that is, nothing is lacking in the Savior that requires man to seek some other source or means of salvation.

Further, if they are “one in substance” then what happened to Christ's body after he was resurrected. If “God is a spirit, without body parts or passions”, and nothing else (we are all spirits BTW) then where is His body now. Why did he discard it after he left his disciples? He told his disciples he would come in like manner as they saw him leave. He didn't throw away his body. He was resurrected and remains so, as a Testament of His sacrifice for all men.

[sevenbak]

OB Huntington again huh? He's already been discredited with his whole life long moon men fetish.

Do you think these quack quotes are a representation of LDS doctrine? Why do you post them as such?

Do I think that the crackpots that started the KKK and murdered blacks and Jews represented the beliefs of the Evangelical movement in early part of the last century? They were mostly Southern Baptists, but I don't go parading their actions and views as representing the beliefs of good Baptists in this country. If you want to know what we believe, then search our doctrines, not isolated words by a few.

[sevenbak]

Luke 2: 52 Jesus increased . . . in favour with God and man.
Luke 23: 35 Christ, the chosen of God.
John 5: 18 said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
John 5: 19 do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.
John 5: 20 Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things.
John 8: 29 Father hath not left me alone.
John 10: 15 Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father.
John 17: 7 whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
John 17: 26 love wherewith thou hast loved me.
Acts 7: 55 (Moro. 9: 26) saw . . . Jesus standing on the right hand of God.
1 Cor. 1: 24 Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
1 Cor. 11: 3 head of Christ is God.
1 Cor. 15: 28 shall the Son also himself be subject unto him.
2 Cor. 4: 6 to give . . . the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Philip. 2: 6 thought it not robbery to be equal with God.
Col. 1: 19 pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell.
Heb. 1: 2 his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things.
1 Jn. 2: 1 we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ.
Hel. 5: 11 hath power given unto him from the Father.

[sevenbak]

Our GOD has only ONE physical body!

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Really, where does it say that in your creed? I understood that your beliefs are that God is only a spirit and he has no body parts or passions. Do you not follow this creed?

[sevenbak]

Yes, these 3 are one, even as the Apostles are commanded to be one.

They are also commanded to be “in Me” as Christ is “in” the Father.

How do you reconcile this?

This might help you understand our doctrine on the matter:

D&C 50: 43 And the Father and I are one. I am in the Father and the Father in me; and inasmuch as ye have received me, ye are in me and I in you.

[P-Marlowe]

OB Huntington again huh? He's already been discredited with his whole life long moon men fetish.

OB Huntington was a faithful member of the LDS Church and a friend and confidant to Joseph Smith. If that makes him a crackpot.... well maybe it does.

Do you think these quack quotes are a representation of LDS doctrine?

Mormon Prophet Brigham Young (whom I am sure knew more about Mormon Doctrine than you) said:

"Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening called the moon? ...when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain," (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 13, p. 217).

Do I think that the crackpots that started the KKK and murdered blacks and Jews represented the beliefs of the Evangelical movement in early part of the last century?

So you are comparing Oliver Huntington and Brigham Young to the KKK?

[sevenbak]

Faithful members of the church do not set policy or doctrine.

Bruce R. McConckie was a faithful apostle, and his book “Mormon Doctrine” was never considered MORMON DOCTRINE. Need there be any better example of what I mean?

The LDS do not claim any Prophets of Apostles, anciently or modern to be infallible. Men are men, and God works through men through his spirit. But men are still men, with ideas and free agency and brains to think for themselves.

If you think that all Southern Baptists are racist and murderous in their hearts because of the actions of a few evil men in the KKK, then that would show you where your line of thinking is taking you.

[P-Marlowe]

Faithful members of the church do not set policy or doctrine. Bruce R. McConckie was a faithful apostle, and his book “Mormon Doctrine” was never considered MORMON DOCTRINE. Need there be any better example of what I mean?

IIRC I think I quoted the Mormon PROPHET Brigham Young.

You claimed that OB Huntington was discredited.

Are you also going to discredit Brigham Young?

If you won't, then I'll be more than happy to oblige.

[P-Marlowe]

If you think that all Southern Baptists are racist and murderous in their hearts because of the actions of a few evil men in the KKK, then that would show you where your line of thinking is taking you.

Would you like for me to post some quotes of Brigham Young that make him sound like a KKK member?

[sevenbak]

Hahaha. This goes right to the heart of all you anti’s approach. You constantly bring up snippets here or there that may or may not have been said, but you can't bring yourself to understand that prophets are not infallible, both anciently and modern.

Absolutely I discredit a “I rather think they do” statement by BY as being non-doctrinal. He was a man, first, prophet of the Lord second.

Do you equally discredit all ancient prophets who (oops, yes, were human)

Noah occasionally drank wine to the point of drunkenness and unconsciousness (Genesis 9:21, 23). Abraham acquiesced in his wife's mistreatment of his second wife (Genesis 16:6). Jacob “with subtlety” and deception obtained his brother's blessing from his blind father Isaac (Genesis 27:12, 35), and also hated his first wife Leah (Genesis 29:30-31). Moses at the least committed manslaughter prior to his call as a prophet (Exodus 2:12-14), and after that call occasionally exhibited doubt in God's word, fierce anger, and boastful arrogance (Exodus 4:10-14, 5:22-23, 32:19; Numbers 20:10-12). The Lord had to intervene directly to prevent Samuel from choosing the wrong man as king (1 Samuel 16:6-7). Daniel sought forgiveness for his sins while prophet (Daniel 9:20). Jonah resisted the commandment of God to him (Jonah 1:2-3, 4:1) James and John, as apostles, delighted in the thought of their opponents being destroyed (Luke 9:52-56) and pridefully sought to elevate themselves above the rest of God's children in the eternities (Mark 10:35-38). Peter was impudent, boastful, arrogant, and cowardly as an apostle during the life of Jesus (Matthew 16:21-23, 26:69-75; John 13:8-9, 18:10-11). Despite Christ's command to send the Gospel to all nations at His ascension (Matthew 27:19; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:47), it required another specific revelation to Peter to persuade him that the Gospel should be taken to those who were not Jews (Acts 10-11), and even years after that revelation Peter continued to demonstrate his prejudice (Galatians 2:1,9,11-14). Nor did Peter hesitate to criticize the approach of his fellow apostle Paul in teaching the Gospel (2 Peter 3:15-16); Paul likewise boasted that he had publicly condemned Peter and “withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed” (Galatians 2:11-14). Moreover, conflicts between Barnabus and Paul resulted in the disruption of their mission (Acts 13:2, 15:36-39)

That all said, all these men were of God, and strove to do his will as they understood it. They were prophets yes, but they were also me. Why can't you understand that?

[sevenbak]

See above post. Would you like me to start posting the history of the KKK and it’s evangelical influence. Do you really want me to go there?

[P-Marlowe]

Would you like me to start posting the history of the KKK and it’s evangelical influence. Do you really want me to go there?

Go for it. I have no loyalty to those people. They did not claim to be prophets of God, and even if they did, who would believe those racist pigs?

Now I do believe that you have some loyalty to Brigham Young, don't you? Will you renounce him as a prophet if it can be proven that he was a racist?