Skip to comments.Faithful Citizenship: “Catholic Vote” is very sought after
Posted on 06/11/2008 6:48:38 PM PDT by Salvation
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How will you vote?
Obama supports abortion, even partial birth abortion. No Catholic at all can vote for him. Catholics MUST always vote pro-life.
This defines the very issue I am having right now with a few liberal Catholics who refuse to see a hierarchy of values. They pose the straw-man that you have to choose between A (a child molesting, polluter and poor employer who is pro life) and B (a adopting, environmentalist who cares for his/her workers but it pro-choice). Obviously A doesn’t exist, but they use that to justify their B.
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1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
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2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
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2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
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gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
Hopefully I got the links fixed so that they don’t run together. Sorry.
For even more CINOs go to:
http://www.ourladyswarriors.org/ > Dissent> Speakers and Authors
They're just as willing here to vote Rat, even though they profess to be Catholic. It's just something they do because their parents and grandparents did it, more of an ethnic pride thing. We got rid of that in the NW, too, I've heard more names that the Irish call the Italians (and vice-versa) than I ever did back in WA.
Thanks for your eye-opening perspective.
You said it better than I could have.
**Democrats aren’t Jack Kennedy anymore, they’re baby killers, and why people who call themselves Catholics don’t see that, I’ll never understand.**
When one looks at the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sees that anyone who even assists (in any way) with an abortion is excommunicated..............it tries my brains to try to figure out why these Catholics can’t see the truth.
No Obama vote for me.
The other day, a freeper was trying to claim that Catholics can vote for a proabort IF that candidate’s position on abortion is not the reason for the support-as if a candidate can be a good guy when he’s not advocating the brutal torture and dismemberment of thousands of innocent babies each day.
NEVER can a Catholic support a candidate who breaks one of the Ten Commandments.
“Thou shalt not kill.”
Tell them that.
This whole “Catholic vote” is a myth. You have those who go to Mass on a regular basis and those who are cafeteria CINOS, then you have Irish/Italian ethnic Catholics whose ancestors went through Ellis Island or earlier and the Latino Catholics who sneaked across the border. These groups besides maybe going to the same overall church have nothing in common.
Had to leave the table when my wife’s elderly mother and aunt, both of whom volunteer at their parish, voted for Hitlery. Another older female friend, a small college professor, just left the Church over sexism.
The Church is reliant on women, but it is losing them.
Oh, several of us responded, but the freeper did not return- a hit and run lie about Church teaching.
Please do not use potty language or references to potty language on the Religion Forum.
Yes! Stop using potty language! Hateful language towards Catholics is the only potty language allowed. Ya got that!
Leave the thread.
Sounds like the catchy-sounding “seamless garment theory,” which is morally and theologically unsound, although still promoted by a few priests and bishops, moreso in universities.
Some people are legitimately confused because unorthodox groups like Voice of the Faithful put out “voter guides” that claim equivalency on issues like abortion and death penalty or poverty or defense policy. Even the USCCB statement is so long and convoluted it’s not a clear (or possibly even accurate) explanation of Church teaching on voting obligations.
I’m glad to see so many Catholics on FR have the story straight and hope we can “evangelize” our less well-informed fellow Catholics out there.
I tried explaining this to my Mom, and when it was on a theoretical plane she did not agree with me. Then I said, “Mom, you realize if you vote for a pro-abortion candidate, more abortions will occur, and you personally are an accessory to those abortions. Your vote played a part in allowing them to happen.” She was stunned and then agreed with me.
Maybe it wouldn’t hurt if we wrote editor’s letters to Catholic newspapers to remind readers that they must vote for LIFE!
The Clintons would not have been elected without the Catholic vote, but part of that might have been because they didn’t know how pro-abortion the Clintons are.
I have a question: I generally agree that Human Life is sacred, and I certainly agree that Abortion is Evil.
I am studying to be Catholic, and I understand that the above beliefs are consistent with Catholic doctrine.
Does this mean that Catholics oppose the Death Penalty? If all life is sacred, then it follows that the Death Penalty is therefore contrary to...?
Speaking personally, I am in favor of the Death Penalty for the most heinous of crimes, and would Volunteer to carry out sentence the likes of Osama bin Laden, for example (tho’ I’d probably have to stand in a long line of Volunteers for that one!) Or Saddam Hussein, or the moron in charge of Iran.
How to reconcile this?
Clinton, who did not receive a majority in either 92 or 96, only a plurality, wouldn’t have been elected were it not for Ross Perot.
Some do, some don't. The teaching of the Church is that the state has the right to impose the death penalty but that it should be rarely utilized.
2267 The traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude, presupposing full ascertainment of the identity and responsibility of the offender, recourse to the death penalty, when this is the only practicable way to defend the lives of human beings effectively against the aggressor.
"If, instead, bloodless means are sufficient to defend against the aggressor and to protect the safety of persons, public authority should limit itself to such means, because they better correspond to the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person.
"Today, in fact, given the means at the State's disposal to effectively repress crime by rendering inoffensive the one who has committed it, without depriving him definitively of the possibility of redeeming himself, cases of absolute necessity for suppression of the offender 'today ... are very rare, if not practically non-existent.'[John Paul II, Evangelium vitae 56.]
“How will you vote?”
Too many negatives from his collectivist, Marxist worldview, his economic advisors who are living in 1978, Ziggie Brezinski his architect, George Soros, his backer and his associates from the communist left.
He and his associates are materialists and that, alone, is antithetical to Catholic theology.
The most dam**ng problem is his adherence to the secular religion of infanticide and abortion.
How will I vote? Either the Constitution Party or very, very, very reluctantly for McCain - holding my nose as Snobama-messiah is even worse than Juan McAmnesty. It’ll depend on whether Virgina is a battleground state or not. It will take an awful lot to get me to vote for McCain, as his position on amnesty for illegals alone turns me off to him. But Snobama-messiah is totally pro-abortion, and McCain/McAmnesty is at least some degree pro-life.
I wish there would be a box on the ballot called Do-Over!
“How will you vote?” Very selectively and for many offices, not at all. I’m coming to believe that heartfelt Prayer is, in the long run, the best way to strengthen the Church and in so strengthening the Church we can bring more people into the fold. I would never vote for a pro-abortion candidtate, nor do I vote for those who equivicate on the issue. But, should the evil win the day in November I’d believe the best defense is prayer.
Yes, they view abortion as just one issue-alla Bernardin’s seamless garment theory.
They put abortion on one side of a scale, and count it as just one “issue” alongside many others, like social security solvency or poverty, or their personal opposition to capital punishment or war.
Yet, all the other “issues” combined, that can be solved politically, cannot possibly add up to thousands of lost souls, deprived of their right to baptism and their God-given right to exist-not to mention the wounded souls of their parents.
Add embryonic stem cell research, euthanasia, the death sentences being handed out to innocent disabled persons, and the number of souls anchoring the scales of justice to the pits of hell, to the mix.
The scale can never be lifted by a politician’s claim to otherwise good intentions.
Given some of the explanations given by Pope John Paul II, especially in Evangelium Vitae, it might seem that the death penalty could not be permissible. However, in the Catholic tradition no blanket condemnation has existed, nor does it exist today. St. Thomas Aquinas explains how the death penalty might be permissible: http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3064.htm
Certainly, what the Church seems to be saying today is that if other suitable means to deal with criminals can be utilized, they should be used before the death penalty should be an option. Being neither an ethicist nor a theologian, I certainly can't speak with moral certitude on the matter one way or the other.
For what it's worth, the Summa Theologica (where I linked to) will give you many good solid answers on a great number of questions.
May God continue to bless you!
Catholic teaching does not equate abortion and capital punishment.
Abortion is intrinsically evil, and always wrong.
There is one exception to the rule, though, which might sound like a technicality.
When the mother will certainly die if the baby remains, as is normally the case with ectopic pregnancies, the baby may be removed from the fallopian tubes, and efforts to save the baby’s life must be taken.
With capital punishment,we are dealing with predators on society.
The Church teaches that we may defend ourselves, and the Church’s position is that the state has a right to defend itself via capital punishment.
Because of the value of each and every soul, we are never to be gleeful about someone’s death.
So, the Church encourages us to pursue other alternatives to capital punishment in the hope that the person has time to repent of his crime, and turn to God before death.
I hope that helps.
Welcome to the Church! As you will discover, there are many Catholics at Free Republic who feel immensely blessed to have been blessed with the gift of our Catholic faith.
Explain for me when ‘dittos’ became potty language. You pinged me for posting dittos ... what’s next, ban me for addressing that?
Perhaps you could point out for me what was potty language in the post to which I offered a dittos, #14.
then we couldn’t vote for republicans either....
of all the major candidates, only Ron Paul could pass the Catholic test as being acceptable as far as “pro-life” issues go, but he fails horrible on “social justice”.
Regarding the issue of life, on a scale of A to F, Mr. McCain is, at best, a D+ candidate.
But on a scale of A to F, regarding the issue of life, Snob-ama is a G.
You have a point. If it were not so, there would be more Catholics on the top of tickets. The GOP has never nominated a Catholic for President and the Democrat's selections have been a stretch.
The GOP is becoming more and more 'pro-choice', since Giuliani was early leading the pack. Even the SC nominations had Harriet Myers in the middle. As abortion becomes more and more a missing subject at Sunday Mass [also shacking up], the younger infrequent attendees are not attuned to pro-life as the elders.
Other issues [economy, war] have the voter's attendance because of their urgent mention in the media while voting pro-life has to be more than a 4 year cicada never mentioned in interim elections.
“When one looks at the Catechism of the Catholic Church and sees that anyone who even assists (in any way) with an abortion is excommunicated..............it tries my brains to try to figure out why these Catholics cant see the truth.”
That would be persons whose assistance is formal and proximate.
Remember that in Catholic canon law, punishments are applied narrowly, benefits more broadly.
The penalty of excommunication, latae sententiae, for participating in the crime of abortion likely does not extend to politicians who support the legality of abortion.
It was in reference to your post #6 the nickname for Harkin.
**I tried explaining this to my Mom, and when it was on a theoretical plane she did not agree with me. Then I said, Mom, you realize if you vote for a pro-abortion candidate, more abortions will occur, and you personally are an accessory to those abortions. Your vote played a part in allowing them to happen. She was stunned and then agreed with me.**
Great explanation. Thanks.
**wrote editors letters to Catholic newspapers to remind readers that they must vote for LIFE!**
Your own local Catholic newspaper!
I will send you a link for the death penalty. Check your FReepmail.
**The most dam**ng problem is his adherence to the secular religion of infanticide and abortion.**
Those two statements needed to be repeated.
I will vote for McCain because he is pro-life. Send him a message that we do not approve of his stand on embryonic stem cell research.
I sincerely believe he will change his mind.