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To: DaveMSmith

John chapter 4, woman at the well. Christ used the law (show me your husband), pointing our her adultery, to convict her of sin.

John chapter 8, woman caught in adultery. Christ used the law (let him who is without sin cast the first stone), pointing out the pride of the men, to convict them of sin.

The teaching of people of necessity follows the conversion of them, as spiritually dead people cannot understand spiritual Truth. It falls not to Christians to determine who is a sheep, we accept the testimony of one and accept him as a brother until/unless his behavior reveals him to be a liar and not one of us.

Nowhere does the Scripture teach to baptize or disciple those who are prideful in their disdain for the Lord or those who cannot declare themselves to be His. Jesus had sharp rebukes to religious leaders - He did not baptize and teach them.

The context of the Scripture is key in understanding how it applies. Baptize and teach those who have received the gospel with joy. Yes, the Spirit judges and convicts of sin; the Christian works in league with the Holy Spirit, not in place of Him.


18 posted on 07/04/2008 12:04:23 PM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg (Test ALL things, hold to that which is True.)
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To: Manfred the Wonder Dawg
Jesus, the Lord God showed sin in your examples. In fact, in John 8, He shows us the spiritual meaning of the sixth commandment. Spiritually, it means do not falsify the Word, which the Scribes and Pharisees were doing (that's why He wrote in the earth, like at the Temple).

How can you 'convert' a person without teaching them about the Lord? A person has to reach their own conclusion and approach the Lord themselves by their own reasoning. The only thing we can do is create disciples of ALL. Love one another. No exceptions.

Yesterday, my SIL (born again evangelical) was telling me a close friend of hers from back east has serious and severe cancer and took some amount of effort to get in touch with my SIL. They were very close. When the rest of the family found out, everyone just assumed she would want to go back east to visit her sick friend.

She actually said to me "I would go, but between me and you, she doesn't know the Lord". I was just floored. This so-called self-styled 'Christian' woman won't visit a sick friend? Yet, she'll jump through hoops for my FIL when he gets sick... and it's really hard to find good within him.

Point is, the sick woman was probably reaching out to my SIL because of her religion. The Lord was giving her a chance to share her faith, but her faith is separated from charity. She can quote Scripture but doesn't actually live it and apply it to her life.

Regarding teaching the Scribes and Pharisees, the NT is full of examples of the Lord teaching just that group, like with this:

Luke 15:1 Then all the tax collectors and the sinners drew near to Him to hear Him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes complained, saying, "This Man receives sinners and eats with them." 3 So He spoke this parable to them, saying: 4 "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!' 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.

21 posted on 07/05/2008 2:43:55 AM PDT by DaveMSmith (If you know these things, you are blessed if you act upon them. John 13:17)
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