Posted on 07/12/2008 5:24:17 AM PDT by NYer
Following in the footsteps of the Divine Shepherd.
I like these analogies.
**And surely the Magisterium’s mission as servant of the Word of God is to help us encounter the truth that sets us free.**
The rules and guidelines of the church are needed just as much as the Ten Commandments are needed.
Stay between the lines. The lines are your friends.
I usually don’t join theological threads, but lately I’ve been experimenting with the ecumenical thread tag for the crevo discussions as a means of reducing the vitriol.
When I saw the title of this thread, it reminded me of a Veggie Tales song where Larry Boy kicked his ball into the Gated Community. It was done as a barbershop quartet, kinda funny. This is intended as a humorous side note, not a commentary on catholicism or anything like that.
Narrator: There once was a boy
who lived in a house
and the house sat under a tree.
By the tree ran a fence
that stretched far and wide
‘Round the Gated Community.
L: Can I have my ball?
Can you get my ball?
I kicked it into the tree.
L: And my ball bounced up
And my ball dropped in
To the Gated Community.
GC Chorus: Ohhh, the Gated Community is where we like to be
Everything’s so lovely, Ohhh our hearts are filled with glee
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
What a lovely bunch we are in our gated unity!
L: Umm, can I have my ball?
Can you get my ball?
I kicked it into the tree.
L: And my ball bounced up
And my ball dropped in
To the Gated Community.
GC Chorus: Ohhh, the Gated Community is where we like to be
Our clothes are never dirty, and the lawns are always green.
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
What a tidy bunch we are in our gated unity!
The Gated Community we think you will agree
Is pleasantly devoid of unsightly stray debris.
Old Man: Free, free of debris.
GC Chorus: The Gated Community is where we love to be
Our smiles are wide when we’re inside, in comfy custody
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
What a smily bunch we are in our gated unity!
L: Can I have my ball?
Can you get my ball?
I kicked it into the tree.
L: And my ball bounced up
And my ball dropped in…
GC Chorus: The Gated Community is where we like to be
Our lives have been made perfect by a hefty entrance fee.
And when you come to visit, you can stand outside and see
L: To the Gated Commu…
GC Chorus: What a lovely bunch we are!
L: To the Gated Commu…
GC Chorus: What a happy bunch we are!
L: To the Gated Community!
GC Chorus: In our Gated Unity!
I doubt I will ever understand the mindset of the Church of Rome.
*******************
I'm not sure what I think of this analogy either, however, I also do not believe that Leon Suprenant speaks for the Vatican in this piece.
Am I wrong, NYer?
Amen, and isn’t it nice to have a map instead of wandering in the desert. We know where we want to go and we know how to get there if we follow the map.
This guy’s writings are no more the teaching of the Catholic Church than any freeper giving his opinion or analogy of the Church.
It is more “food for thought”, something to help some understand what the author feels about the Catholic Church.
It is more “food for thought”, something to help some understand what the author feels about the Catholic Church.
*********************
Well said, tiki.
I'm not a fan of gated communities, so this article didn't resound with me.
It conforms to an analogy I once read (somewhere) about religion being similar to a sonnet. The iambic pentameter is set and defined, but within those lines is freedom.
~Can’t remember what it’s from.
This article is a good corrective to the wrong conception of “inclusion” taught by so many liberal Christians. True inclusion means that all are invited to encounter and have faith in Christ and His saving grace given to us in and through the Church, not that everyone is invited to make up their own faith or to follow the whims of societal fashions in morality regardless of what is said by divine revelation in the deposit of faith guarded by the Church.
No, you are correct Trisham. Leon Suprenant does not speak for the Vatican. But I do believe he makes a good point. We all need boundaries. Shepherds lead their flocks into gated fields where they can graze freely while protected from predators. So it is with the Church. Correct me if I am wrong, K, but even the Orthodox Church sets limits, right? How is that different from the Church of Rome?
“Correct me if I am wrong, K, but even the Orthodox Church sets limits, right? How is that different from the Church of Rome?”
Of course, the canons, from Ecumenical councils and from local synods, and importantly, Holy Tradition and theologoumenna. There is nothing like, even a little like, “The Magisterium” administered by anybody, especially by bishops. The ultimate guardians of Orthodoxy are the Laos tou Theou, the laity and we know the rules, in great measure, because we are taught them by our families and in our parishes; they are part of us. I can guarantee to you that no Orthodox person, except maybe a Russian from centuries ago heavily influenced by Rome, would ever think of the canons and Traditions or traditions and theologoumenna as anything like a wall keeping us in, even for our own good. I have all sorts of need for a bishop but not to protect me from spiritual predators. My Orthodox Faith does that, NYer.
Jesus, pro me perforatus,
Condar intra tuum latus;
Tu per lympham profluentem,
Tu per sanguinem repentem,
In peccata mi redunda,
Tolle culpam, sordes munda!
Coram Te nec justus forem
Quamvis tota vi laborem,
Nec si fide nunquam cesso,
Fletu stillans indefesso;
Tibi soli tantum munus—
Salva me, Salvator Unus!
Nil in manu mecum fero,
Sed me versus crucem gero;
Vestimenta nudus oro,
Opem debilis imploro,
Fontem Christi quæro immundus,
Nisi laves, moribundus.
Dum hos artus vita regit,
Quando nox sepulcro legit;
Mortuos quum stare jubes,
Sedens Judex inter nubes—
Jesus, pro me perforatus,
Condar intra tuum latus!
*******************
We have free will for a reason, don't we? Yes, there are rules/laws, but walls? I have a problem with this analogy. If I understand correctly, we are to choose God and the Church, not be blinded to other possibilities.
We should know what is right through the Church, but without our own hearts and minds involved, of what good is our compliance?
You may have taken this analogy too far. Do you have children?
How so?
Here ... to put it into more practical adult Catholic terms, when I attended catholic school as a child, the Sisters admonished us to never attend services at a non-Catholic church. At the time, I did not know anyone who wasn't Catholic so it was a non issue. Later, in my young adult years, a coworker invited me to attend Syunday services at her Presbyterian Church. Flashback to Sister's words! My coworker was in a state of personal distress and I had suggested that she return to Church. There was no way I could tell her to go without me so, using my free will, I accompanied her to that Sunday's service. The service bore a resemblance to our Catholic Mass until some woman appeared in the Sanctuary during the Offertory, wearing a very transparent outfit and danced. (this was 30+ years ago!) I was completely scandalized and fully understood Sister's admonition.
Shepherds guard their flocks but the sheep still have free will. Since closing 5 of the 6 Catholic parishes in a nearby community, many of those Catholics who lost their homes have now 'strayed' into a vibrant Evangelical church. Once we complete the transformaton of the old Methodist Church into a Catholic Church, I plan to go door to door to invite the Catholics back home.
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