Remember the ultimate goal of ecumenism: Pope

Sydney, Jul. 18, 2008 (CWNews.com) - Christian Baptism is "the point of departure for the entire ecumenical movement," Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) told a meeting of Christian leaders in Sydney on July 18. But ecumenical work, he added, should always aim toward completion in a shared celebration of the Eucharist.

The Holy Father met on Friday morning with representatives of Australia's other Christian communities-- having earlier held short private audiences with local political leaders. He told the Christian leaders that the ecumenical movement has "reached a critical juncture."

To progress further toward genuine unity, the Pope said, Christians must address their differences with candor. "We must guard against any temptation to view doctrine as divisive and hence an impediment to the seemingly more pressing and immediate task of improving the world in which we live," he said.

Pope Benedict illustrated his own point by reminding the ecumenical assembly that the Catholic Church is observing a Pauline year, which he as Roman Pontiff declared. St. Paul, he observed, emphasized that the Church is "built 'built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets' with Jesus Himself as the cornerstone." Every Christian, the Pope continued, bears a responsibility to build up the whole of the Church, "to ensure that the edifice stands strong so that others will be attracted to enter."

Ecumenical work, the Pope continued, involves not merely an exchange of ideas but, more importantly, an exchange of gifts. Ultimately, he insisted, the effort "points toward a common celebration of the Eucharist, which Christ entrusted to his apostles as the sacrament of the Church's unity par excellence."

...ecumenical work, he added, should always aim toward completion in a shared celebration of the Eucharist...

A valid celebration of the Eucharist can't be had, unless the receiving party has pledged submission and obedience to the Pope's authority over all believers, and the celebrant has valid orders from said Pope. Thus, the short-term goal behind any Catholic ecumenical effort is creating subservience to the Pope.

A valid celebration of the Eucharist can't be had, unless the receiving party has pledged submission and obedience to the Pope's authority over all believers, and the celebrant has valid orders from said Pope. Thus, the short-term goal behind any Catholic ecumenical effort is creating subservience to the Pope.

I think it would be a little more accurate to phrase it, "the short-term goal behind any Catholic ecumenical effort is re-establishing communion with the Pope."

I pinged Kolokotronis to get his take on current progress on re-establishing communion between Constantinople and Rome. (And possibly with his take on the role that Moscow plays in this)

Although canonically the situation is a tad bit different than re-establishing communion between Rome and those communities established as a result of the split in the 16th century, you might find his take on "subservience to the Pope" interesting.

See, Alex, I don't see what is so bloody difficult to bear about being in communion with Rome. I really don't. The role of bishop is established in the Holy Scriptures, so that part isn't up to debate (even though I know some of your brethren would like to think it is -- I am certain that you don't). So what has Rome done that is so onerous?

Rome says abortion is bad. OK, so do I.
Rome says homosexuality is disordered. Love the sinner...hate the sin. OK, I agree with that too.
Rome teaches that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ. I know there is some dispute among Protestants about that (e.g., the Lutherans and the Anabaptists have radically different positions on that).
Rome teaches the communion of saints. I understand that, again, there are some Protestants who dispute that. Mostly non-credal sects. BUT NOT ALL Protestants. (I definitely can understand how this is offensive for a sect that teaches soul sleep -- but that's not you, is it?)
Rome teaches the Trinity. I understand that, again, that concept is highly offensive to some Protestants. Again, those non-credal sects. But NOT ALL Protestants deny the Trinity.

So what is it then?

I can’t speak for Alex. However, if I may chime in...

-Rome says salvation is based on a combination of faith and works. I do not.
-Rome says both Scripture and church tradition are equally valid and infallible guides to doctrine. I do not.
-Rome says we ought to venerate Mary and other saints. I do not.

I could go on, but you begin to get the picture...

I could go on, but you begin to get the picture...

Yup. And I knew the answer already before making the post (not that I agree with all your bullets, but that's neither here nor there).

And if we could actually have enough maturity around these parts to have a serious theological discussion about similarities and differences, then we might get somewhere.

Unfortunately, I just don't see that happening any time soon. The vultures circle and make any possible serious discussion difficult.

(Frankly, that's one thing that other boards have that, at times, I wish FR had: an "ignore" button)

Why is it that a Catholic viewpoint is full of seriousness, but a Proddie viewpoint is characterized as vultures circling?

Since when is there one proddie viewpoint? When have I accused all prods of having one monolithic view on anything? (well, on most issues)

Since when have I accused all prods of being vultures?

There are some who feel it is their moral obligation to tell a Catholic that they aiegoing to hell, the instant a Catholic doctrine is mentioned. Who feel that they have a command from God Almighty to identity the Eucharist as a ''death cookie" whenever possible...etc.

Now I have never categorized you, or Alex, or Dan in that group.

The first step towards having a serious discussion is acknowledging our position, not wanting us to bow down to yours.

I almost agree. I think the first step is to know what each other's position is...then to move on from that point. Unfortunately, that is easier said than done with as much back ground noise as there is around here.

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