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Is Anti-Catholicism Dead? (Ques. Proposed by NY Times)
NY Times City Room Blog ^ | 7/23/2008 | Sewell Chan

Posted on 07/23/2008 2:47:21 PM PDT by Pyro7480

When Gov. Alfred E. Smith ran for president in 1928, his candidacy was derailed in large part by anti-Catholic prejudice. It has been nearly 48 years since John F. Kennedy became the first (and so far only) Roman Catholic president, but experts say that anti-Catholic sentiment — much of it originating in, or as a response to, immigrants in New York — remains an enduring force in American culture.

That was the consensus of a panel assembled at the Museum of the City of New York on Tuesday night to consider the question, “Is Anti-Catholicism Dead?

...The Rev. Richard John Neuhaus — a leading conservative intellectual, a former Lutheran pastor and the editor of the leading Catholic journal First Things — offered a surprising view on the question.

“To be a Catholic is not to be refused positions of influence in our society,” he said. “Indeed, one of the most acceptable things is to be a bad Catholic, and in the view of many people, the only good Catholic is a bad Catholic.”

...He added that anti-Catholicism was as likely to come from the left — sometimes from commentators who believe that a “threatening theological insurgency is engineered and directed by Catholics,” with evangelical Protestants merely as the movement’s “foot soldiers.”

(Excerpt) Read more at cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: anticatholic; anticatholicism; catholic; nytimes
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Interesting article -- read the rest at the link above.
1 posted on 07/23/2008 2:47:21 PM PDT by Pyro7480
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To: Pyro7480

Not around here it’s not...


2 posted on 07/23/2008 2:49:05 PM PDT by Old Sarge (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; american colleen; Desdemona; StAthanasiustheGreat; ..

Catholic ping!


3 posted on 07/23/2008 2:49:22 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: Old Sarge; Petronski; sandyeggo

You said: Not around here it’s not...

You ain’t lyin’!


4 posted on 07/23/2008 2:50:29 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Pyro7480
He added, however, that “untruths and half-truths” make it harder for Catholics to transmit their teachings to the next generation.
5 posted on 07/23/2008 2:51:35 PM PDT by thefrankbaum (Ad maiorem Dei gloriam)
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To: Old Sarge

Catholics are second only to Mormons in being the most hated brand of religion by the moonbats of the religious left. Of course if they are a CINO, like JF Kerry or a faux Mormon, like Harry Reid, they get a pass.


6 posted on 07/23/2008 2:54:03 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Are there any men left in Washington? Or, are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud)
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To: Pyro7480

The vast majority of “Anti-Catholicism” today is from the Secular Left. They hate the “Evangelicals” just as bad, if not worse, than the Catholics.


7 posted on 07/23/2008 2:54:17 PM PDT by BnBlFlag (Deo Vindice/Semper Fidelis "Ya gotta saddle up your boys; Ya gotta draw a hard line")
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To: Pyro7480

Not in FreeRepublic it’s not! We’ve got some of the most hateful anti-Catholic bigots in the world on this forum.


8 posted on 07/23/2008 2:55:13 PM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Pyro7480

I think a more relevant question would be “Is the NYT dead?”

I would love to make a bet with anyone at the Times - in 100 years, the Times will be gone, but Catholics will still be here.


9 posted on 07/23/2008 2:55:39 PM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: Pyro7480
“To be a Catholic is not to be refused positions of influence in our society,” he said. “Indeed, one of the most acceptable things is to be a bad Catholic, and in the view of many people, the only good Catholic is a bad Catholic.”

Father Neuhaus got it right. At least among the left wing intelligentsia.

10 posted on 07/23/2008 2:56:46 PM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Pyro7480
“Is Anti-Catholicism Dead?”

ROTFLMTO

11 posted on 07/23/2008 2:57:05 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Go to a thread titled, (I omit the screaming all-caps) “Roman Catholicism Spawned the Apostasy of Evangelicalism”.

Whew, their keyboards must be full of sweat. This harmless mackerel-snapper got called all kinds of names for pointing out American anti-Catholicsm in its various regional forms.


12 posted on 07/23/2008 2:57:08 PM PDT by elcid1970 (My cartridges are dipped in pig grease)
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To: Pyro7480

lolrofapimprfi . . . *gasp*

Seriously...LOLOL


13 posted on 07/23/2008 2:57:46 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Vigilanteman
Catholics are second only to Mormons in being the most hated brand of religion by the moonbats of the religious left.

religious right too...even more so. Read a few threads on the religion forum and tell me it isn't so.

14 posted on 07/23/2008 2:57:59 PM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: Pyro7480
"It has been nearly 48 years since John F. Kennedy became the first (and so far only) Roman Catholic president,"

The GOP has never nominated one. They came close with Giuliani leading the pack. [don't throw up at that thought that he could have become the first GOP Catholic nominee].

16 posted on 07/23/2008 2:58:24 PM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: Pyro7480

Whew!

[dabs eyes with tissue]

THAT’S a good one.

**snort**


17 posted on 07/23/2008 2:59:09 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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Comment #18 Removed by Moderator

Comment #19 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo; Petronski

Petronski was suspended?


20 posted on 07/23/2008 3:01:08 PM PDT by Pyro7480 ("If the angels could be jealous of men, they would be so for one reason: Holy Communion." -M. Kolbe)
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To: Pyro7480

They’re joking right? As far as I can tell it’s alive and well and being fed.


21 posted on 07/23/2008 3:01:11 PM PDT by Jaded (neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again an)
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To: sandyeggo

Aw shucks!


22 posted on 07/23/2008 3:01:15 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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Comment #23 Removed by Moderator

To: big'ol_freeper
You said: Not around here it’s not... You ain’t lyin’!

What is funny about that is Catholics have no problem telling Protestants they are going to hell because they don't belong to 'The Church', but when Protestants say something about what is wrong with the Catholic beliefs, they are horrible anti-Catholic bigots.

24 posted on 07/23/2008 3:02:30 PM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: Pyro7480

We can put that behind us now. RM gave me a very fair hearing.


25 posted on 07/23/2008 3:02:36 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: sandyeggo; cyborg

Yep, I even took a shower!


26 posted on 07/23/2008 3:03:20 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: sandyeggo

I will second that.....I am so glad that Petronski is back...


27 posted on 07/23/2008 3:03:50 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Pyro7480

It’s not Catholicism per se that’s hated by the Beautiful People, it’s any religion with a non-negotiable moral code.

Perhaps I should say, any religion with a non-negotiable moral code that does not enforce it’s writ with violence.

Violence wins plenty of respect from the Left.


29 posted on 07/23/2008 3:06:23 PM PDT by sinanju
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Old Sarge
One difference. When I have experienced anti Catholic vibes from evangelicals or like minded Christians I temper my upsetment with the knowledge that these folks do believe my Catholicism will condemn me to Hell. A fate they are trying to save me from. Wrongheaded to me and annoying, but when I get the anti catholic vibes from the left, and as a NYC public school teacher, boy does that happen often, the feeling on their part is that I am: 1) anti semitic, 2)have not evolved beyond the Middle Ages, and 3)can't possibly be as intelligent as I seem to be, since no intelligent person could believe this stuff. Oh and they are a little disturbed that I seem to fear death somewhat less than they do, as they are always asking me what doI think happens when you die.

BTW I met Father Neuhaus years ago when he was Reverend Neuhaus. My Theology professor at Fordham arranged for a group of us to interview him about the Lutheran liturgy for our class in comparative Christian Liturgy. Much younger then, you were still impressed with his intelligence, holiness, and faith, as well as his easy manner. He was a liberal then, giving sanctuary to two draft dodgers in his church.

31 posted on 07/23/2008 3:11:11 PM PDT by xkaydet65 (Freedom is purchased not with gold, but with steel.)
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To: Pyro7480; eastsider
a panel assembled at the Museum of the City of New York on Tuesday night to consider the question, “Is Anti-Catholicism Dead?” ... The Rev. Richard John Neuhaus

Rats! I would have gone if I knew about it. I learned about the exhibit from the Society of St. Hugh of Cluny blog.

32 posted on 07/23/2008 3:13:30 PM PDT by ELS (Vivat Benedictus XVI!)
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To: Always Right

You said: Catholics have no problem telling Protestants they are going to hell because they don’t belong to ‘The Church’

Um. Wrong. Catholics in particular do not judge the eternal destination of anybody, Catholic or non-Catholic. There is not one person who has ever lived that the Catholic Church (or practicing Catholics) states is in hell or destined for hell. Catholic belief is that only God can judge.

Now I do not doubt that you can find some Catholics who would make a pronouncement like that, but they would be wrong. Just like the time when my kids were going trick or treating on Halloween many moons ago and a Baptist family down the street told them they were going to hell because they were Catholics.


33 posted on 07/23/2008 3:22:45 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Always Right
Show me one Catholic on this forum who has consigned any poster to hell.

Any good Catholic knows that decision is WAY above our pay grade.

About the only place you'll see that sort of pronouncement made is in something like Sister Mary Ignatius Explains It All for You, which is a Broadway secular anti-(ex-)Catholic's idea of an old-fashioned yardstick-wielding teaching sister.

34 posted on 07/23/2008 3:33:36 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: big'ol_freeper
Um. Wrong. Catholics in particular do not judge the eternal destination of anybody, Catholic or non-Catholic. There is not one person who has ever lived that the Catholic Church (or practicing Catholics) states is in hell or destined for hell. Catholic belief is that only God can judge.

So Catholics believe non-Catholics can be saved without the sacraments????

35 posted on 07/23/2008 3:35:01 PM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: BnBlFlag
And the Secular Left just loves to pit the Evangelicals against the Catholics.

After all, divide and conquer and all that.

Sometimes I wonder if some of the really enthusiastic haters on this board aren't agents provocateurs from somewhere like DU (and I don't mean Ducks Unlimited! :o) )

36 posted on 07/23/2008 3:36:35 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Show me one Catholic on this forum who has consigned any poster to hell.

I am going to the county fair right now, but I will find one over the next day. I am certain I can find many who stated we can't be saved, so maybe the hell part was only implied.

37 posted on 07/23/2008 3:36:52 PM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: Always Right
So Catholics believe non-Catholics can be saved without the sacraments????

Not without Baptism -- but there's Baptism of Blood and even Baptism of Desire as well as the ordinary Baptism by water and the Holy Ghost.

So there is always the possibility of salvation. God has the power to reach out and save anyone, anywhere, as long as they truly desire it.

But we believe the safest and surest way is with the benefit of all the Sacraments of the Church -- especially that of Reconciliation (Confession).

38 posted on 07/23/2008 3:39:31 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Always Right
Even hedging your bets, I don't think you'll find one.

And even if you do find a poster who said that, they are wrong and in conflict with the teaching of the Church.

39 posted on 07/23/2008 3:42:10 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Pyro7480
The Museum of New York has just opened it's Catholics in New York exhibit.

Clearly the NYT is carrying out its mandate to propagandize "balance" for the good of its constituency.

40 posted on 07/23/2008 3:44:57 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (bweed'n dee boo bow shaaaboood'n dee feee-oooo!)
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To: Always Right

Catholics believe that judging is God’s business not mans. It is just not part of Catholic outlook to state if someone is saved or not. And we pray constantly for the salvation of all men.

On a personal note, for example, in 1991 when the first Gulf War kicked off I was a battery commander in an artillery unit. The first thing I did when I heard the battle had started was to pray for the salvation of souls who had just died on both sides. I did not pray that those who were Catholics were saved, I prayed for everyone. That is Catholic.

A lot of folks get wrapped around a Catholic Church statement that says “there is no salvation outside the Church”, erroneously thinking that it means that if you are not Catholic you are not saved. But if you actually read the statements what it means is that the Church is the wellspring of Christ’s graces and that even those who are not Catholic are recipients of some measure of those graces.


41 posted on 07/23/2008 3:53:30 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Always Right; big'ol_freeper; AnAmericanMother
Surely you jest. That's the one thing the Catholic Church does NOT do: we canonize, but we do not demonize.

It is far more common, at least in FR fora, for Catholics to be mocked with the label of Universalism because we believe, as the Catechism teaches, that

"All men are called to this catholic unity of the People of God. . . . And to it, in different ways, belong or are ordered: the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind, called by God's grace to salvation."

It's instructive to enter the Catechism text here and read on for a couple of paragraphs about how seriously we take the Scriptural teaching that God wills that all men be saved by and through Christ--- though not all men will accept this great gift of Salvation, and thus are lost.

No, it's not Universalism, but it is as far from what you said, AR, as it is Biblically possible to go.

I challenge you to find one -- one--- Catholic FReper who said that somebody's going to hell because they're not Catholic. I seriously doubt that you can.

But if you do ---find me that ignoramus and I will whup some l'arnin' into him. And don't think I won't.

42 posted on 07/23/2008 4:00:01 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("In Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others." Romans 12:5)
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To: sandyeggo

Amen to that...


43 posted on 07/23/2008 4:04:49 PM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: xkaydet65
when I get the anti catholic vibes from the left, and as a NYC public school teacher, boy does that happen often, the feeling on their part is that I am:
1) anti semitic,
2)have not evolved beyond the Middle Ages, and
3)can't possibly be as intelligent as I seem to be, since no intelligent person could believe this stuff.

Ironically, I feel the same way about Muslims.

44 posted on 07/23/2008 4:07:08 PM PDT by Old Sarge (CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)
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To: AnAmericanMother; Always Right
Show me one Catholic on this forum who has consigned any poster to hell.

Any particular poster individually, or re the group said poster belongs to?

45 posted on 07/23/2008 4:10:30 PM PDT by Alex Murphy
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you for taking up where my laziness caused me not to go. Where I was paraphrasing conceptually you documented what the Church teaches.


46 posted on 07/23/2008 4:12:27 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Always Right

Are you team 3?


47 posted on 07/23/2008 4:21:01 PM PDT by Jaded (neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again an)
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To: Alex Murphy
Posters here.

That's what I said.

Nobody here is responsible for what some anonymous somebody somewhere on the internet claiming to be a Catholic has said at some point in the past.

Like, say, Charles Kingsley's evil Jesuit Eustace in one of his novels . . . (and Kingsley was an Anglican!)

48 posted on 07/23/2008 4:21:32 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Mrs. Don-o

And the people said . . . AMEN!


49 posted on 07/23/2008 4:21:58 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment))
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To: Petronski

That’s only because you finally had the time to. :-0


50 posted on 07/23/2008 4:21:59 PM PDT by Jaded (neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again an)
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