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Breaking: (Archbishop) Chaput responds to Biden
American Papist ^ | September 8, 2008 | Thomas Peters

Posted on 09/08/2008 1:42:40 PM PDT by NYer

Today on the Archdiocese of Denver website, the following news item:

Denver bishops release letter to faithful, stress importance of accurate moral reasoning by public servants

Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. and Auxiliary Bishop James D. Conley have released a new letter to the Catholics of northern Colorado, titled “Public Servants and Moral Reasoning.” In the letter, they reaffirm the importance of informed moral reasoning when discerning public action, especially in regard to Catholics who serve their country on the national stage. Click here to read the full letter (PDF file)

The last two paragraphs sum-up Archbishop Chaput's position:

In his Meet the Press interview, Sen. Biden used a morally exhausted argument that American Catholics have been hearing for 40 years: i.e., that Catholics can't "impose" their religiously based views on the rest of the country. But resistance to abortion is a matter of human rights, not religious opinion. And the senator knows very well as a lawmaker that all law involves the imposition of some people's convictions on everyone else. That is the nature of the law. American Catholics have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting the destruction of more than a million developing unborn children a year. Other people have imposed their "pro-choice" beliefs on American society without any remorse for decades.

If we claim to be Catholic, then American Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly. We need to put an end to Roe and the industry of permissive abortion it enables. Otherwise all of us - from senators and members of Congress, to Catholic laypeople in the pews - fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.

Bishops who have responded to Biden so far: 3.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: abortion; archbishopchaput; biden; chaput

1 posted on 09/08/2008 1:42:41 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Biden-gate :-)


2 posted on 09/08/2008 1:43:36 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

About time!

I think this is due at least in part to the leadership of Pope Benedict.


3 posted on 09/08/2008 1:45:12 PM PDT by Westbrook (Having more children does not divide your love, it multiplies it.)
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To: NYer

There have always been high-ranking, pro-abortion Catholics in Washington. I’m wondering why now Church leadership is coming out so vociferously against Biden and Pelosi. I’m all for it, don’t get me wrong.


4 posted on 09/08/2008 1:46:49 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie (Homeschool like your kids' lives depend on it.)
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To: NYer

Its long overdue.


5 posted on 09/08/2008 1:49:31 PM PDT by Schwarzeneger (The Empire Strikes Back.....Free Georgia (McCain/Palin 08))
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To: NYer

Oh slow Joe Biden, this is why Dummies shouldn’t do theology.


6 posted on 09/08/2008 1:51:06 PM PDT by NeoCaveman (Annoy the media, end the Obamanation, vote maverick, McCain/Palin '08)
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To: ChocChipCookie

http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/09/bp-morlino-of-madsion-on-pelosi-biden-and-the-failure-of-clergy/

you can hear a sermon of Bishop Morlino of Madison, WI quite critical of Biden and Pelosi

I do not know what to make of the bishops finally summoning some leadership. It couldn’t come at a better time.


7 posted on 09/08/2008 1:51:36 PM PDT by Piers-the-Ploughman (Just say no to circular firing squads.)
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To: NYer

Pelosi got called called for her comments... so this jerk repeats them. Palin’s gonna’ rip him a new one during the debate!


8 posted on 09/08/2008 1:53:25 PM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: NYer

Amazing. There was a time it would be remarkable for 3 U.S. bishops to respond to this at all, but now we have 3 bishops respond within 24 hours?


9 posted on 09/08/2008 1:54:08 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: NYer

try telling that to my Catholic MIL who has been voting dem all her life...........


10 posted on 09/08/2008 1:57:24 PM PDT by tioga (Big Mac and the Cuda - 2008)
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To: NYer

I’m betting it’s the Pope’s influence. Several bishops have said something before, but it was isolated and sporadic. Giving some of them a shove, though, brings out enough simultaneously to make a much more forceful impression. Keep ‘em coming! ;-)


11 posted on 09/08/2008 1:57:45 PM PDT by maryz
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To: ChocChipCookie
There have always been high-ranking, pro-abortion Catholics in Washington. I’m wondering why now Church leadership is coming out so vociferously against Biden and Pelosi. I’m all for it, don’t get me wrong.

Maybe the Vatican knows something we don't.

12 posted on 09/08/2008 1:58:51 PM PDT by fanfan (SCC:Canadians have constitutional protection to all opinions, as long as they are based on the facts)
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To: nickcarraway
On the Atlanta front in the abortion wars, our Archbishop “printed” - without comment or extension or even SIGNING his name! - an original (undated) boilerplate letter of the right-to-life committee.

I suspect that his racial/ethnic liberal politics - that only allow him to support Obama (and by extension Pelosi and Kennedy and Biden and Kerry ....) - are more important to him than 43 million aborted taxpayers.

13 posted on 09/08/2008 2:01:35 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but Hillary's ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: NYer
And the senator knows very well as a lawmaker that all law involves the imposition of some people's convictions on everyone else.

I want to remember this in case I need it for ammo because it is true so by posting it, I can find it again for awhile.

Now there was a thread about a bishop? in WI who scrapped his sermon? s/b homily oh well after Biden's appearance on "Meet the Press", same old tired argument we've heard so much.

My only concern, and I don't do poscast to hear a replay, is that if he brought him up by name in church, I don't know if that crosses the line. I don't want the Catholics to get backed into a corner and risk losing their 501c(3). They have to walk a fine line. Unless you are a liberal church.

14 posted on 09/08/2008 2:01:43 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: ChocChipCookie

This weekend our priest went off in his sermon on how we have to remove the unbeliever from the group, after airing your grievances with him, two or three witnesses, and then The Church.


15 posted on 09/08/2008 2:02:24 PM PDT by stevio (Crunchy Con - God, guns, guts, and organically grown crunchy nuts.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

does kennedy take communion?

i’m a former catholic who did not like the double standard, turn a blind-eye to those “famous” catholics who support abortion and take communion and get an annulment after having children and being married for 20 years.


16 posted on 09/08/2008 2:02:39 PM PDT by machogirl
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To: NYer

Biden was speaking in Iowa today. He looked very old, tired, and depressed. How anyone could be inspired by that...It seems like they are bummed out by McCain’s poll numbers in the wake of the convention and the Palin pick.


17 posted on 09/08/2008 2:04:54 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: ChocChipCookie

Pope Benedict would be the reason why we are now getting more action from the bishops about this.


18 posted on 09/08/2008 2:06:20 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Biden was speaking in Iowa today. He looked very old, tired, and depressed.

They know they are in for an a$$ whippin'!

19 posted on 09/08/2008 2:08:35 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: johnny7
Pelosi’s comments were far more egregious than Biden's.....Biden stated as a lawmaker he had no right to impose his beliefs on others, so abortion was OK......Pelosi tried to say the church teaching was that life begins in the third trimester and that the church's teaching was not clear..........when the church teaching is very clear that life begins at conception. Any abortion is murder - no if, ands, or buts........both of them should have the intellect to understand this, so they are openly defiant in their positions. As it Ted Kennedy, btw.
20 posted on 09/08/2008 2:08:45 PM PDT by tioga (Big Mac and the Cuda - 2008)
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To: machogirl

yes, teddy takes communion and the spineless American bishops allow it.


21 posted on 09/08/2008 2:10:42 PM PDT by tioga (Big Mac and the Cuda - 2008)
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To: Northern Yankee; narses; cpforlife.org
Biden tries to make it seem like it is just a matter of personal belief and faith. It isn't. It falls within reason and common sense. There are objective facts which corroborate the teaching of the Church. Pelosi tried to quote Augustine to cite an ancient theory of delayed ensoulment - the idea the soul is infused into the body some time after conception. But even with that theory MOST abortions, later abortions certainly, are occuring when that "ensoulment" would already have occurred so her argument was really an argument AGAINST abortion not for it, as she thought. Surely, life has already begun when children are born alive in "live birth" botched abortions, like those Obama voted for. But they can't bring themselves even to acknowledge this which is not a matter of faith or belief at all but of objective biological evidence which can be observed and seen by EVERYONE.

Obama complained that pro-life advocates wanted children born alive in botched "live birth" abortions treated the same as if they were a "nine-month-old" child. Well, they are. That's common sense not some obscure theological mystery which people can have different opinions about.

It certainly is not mysterious question of faith or belief that a child born alive in a "live birth" botched abortion is a living and breathing human being, a person, with rights. It's a fact. Biden has a duty as a Catholic to explain this to Obama and to do EVERYTHING within his power to persuade others to understand and oppose this evil. It is not just a personal, subjective opinion, enshrouded in mysteries of faith and belief, that Biden is prevented from "imposing" by some imaginary constitutional principle about the separation of belief and public policy. That abortion takes a human life unlawfully and immorally is within the scope of reason and common sense observation of facts. It is a rational judgement concerning application of natural law and human rights.

22 posted on 09/08/2008 2:16:44 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: ChocChipCookie

because Biden and Peloski both have gone on Meet the Press and spouted incorrect Catholic doctrine.


23 posted on 09/08/2008 2:22:33 PM PDT by okokie (40 days of Prayer and fasting to end abortion Sept 24-Nov 2 http://www.40daysforlife.com/splash.cfm)
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To: Westbrook

NOPE!
Nancy & Joe made the mistake of pretending to speak for the Catholic Church.
That makes it an issue for the Church to respond to WITHOUT FEAR OF ANY “SEPARATION” ISSUES!!


24 posted on 09/08/2008 2:25:25 PM PDT by G Larry (Our VP has more executive experience than B.O.)
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To: tioga

his bishop probably doesn’t want to lose his donations$$$$


25 posted on 09/08/2008 2:25:47 PM PDT by okokie (40 days of Prayer and fasting to end abortion Sept 24-Nov 2 http://www.40daysforlife.com/splash.cfm)
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To: Northern Yankee
I'm still waiting for a call back from our Bishops office in the DFW metroplex. 8 days ago I was told they would get back to me with an answer on Sen Biden.
I'm not holding my Breath.
26 posted on 09/08/2008 2:28:11 PM PDT by Milly (Cradle to Grave Catholic)
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To: ChocChipCookie
Archbishop Chaput and Archbishop Raymond Burke (now in Rome formerly in St. Louis) have been outspoken this topic for several years now, but they've been mostly in a minority in the U.S. Clearly, the recent catalyst for the 'vociferous' response of many Bishops were the comments by Nancy Pelosi on Meet the Press, where she asserted that "over the centuries, the doctors of the church have not been able to make that definition" (i.e. when life begins). Since Nancy broached her own rule of the "separation" of Church and State, it was incumbent upon the Bishops to set her, and their respective flocks, straight on what the Church teaches, and has taught since the beginning, on life and abortion. Edward Cardinal Egan's statement was particularly noteworthy and can be read here. You don't have to be Catholic or even Christian to agree wholeheartedly with this remarkable statement by a courageous bishop.
27 posted on 09/08/2008 2:30:23 PM PDT by Servant of the Cross (the Truth will set you free)
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To: tioga

Show her the dem platform, and ask her if she agrees with it.

Many old-time dems don’t have a clue what their party has been pushing on the national level for the past 40 years.

They just listen to the lies of their local party leaders.


28 posted on 09/08/2008 2:38:46 PM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: Milly
Wow... let me know if they do get back to you.

I really do think these Bishops are at a crossroads in the faith doctrine. They are either going to rise up and stand up to these folks, or remain silent.

It doesn't bode well if they do remain quiet.

I am glad that we now have Archbishop Burke at the Vatican. I see him as a driving force behind a stronger stance against these CINO politicians.

29 posted on 09/08/2008 2:54:33 PM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Robert A. Cook, PE

When was this? I don’t always get the Georgia Bulletin because the street numbers in our neighborhood are so similar so the mail gets mis-delivered.

I was unaware of Archbishop Gregory’s politics. Can you fill me in?


30 posted on 09/08/2008 3:01:53 PM PDT by melissa_in_ga (McCain-Palin 2008 - A landslide!)
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To: Northern Yankee

I’ll keep you posted.


31 posted on 09/08/2008 3:07:16 PM PDT by Milly (Cradle to Grave Catholic)
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To: fetal heart beats by 21st day

I have a couple of articles to mail to her.....about the pelosi/biden Catholic church broohaha......I will have to find a concise list to add to that.....she is as smug as biden that his will not tarnish her with the Lord.....


32 posted on 09/08/2008 3:09:06 PM PDT by tioga (Big Mac and the Cuda - 2008)
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To: NYer

Archbishop Chaput rocks! After this abortion thing gets straightened out, maybe someone can take a broom to that mess going on inside the church in San Francisco.
The new Pope and the Americans can get this sorted in no time.
I really like it. LOL


33 posted on 09/08/2008 3:09:50 PM PDT by RedRedRose
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To: NYer
Other people have imposed their "pro-choice" beliefs on American society without any remorse for decades.

Can't be said forcefully enough.

34 posted on 09/08/2008 3:31:07 PM PDT by TigersEye (This is the age of the death of reason.)
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To: HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
Agree with you 100%.

IMO—the only thing left is to excommunicate. Biden Pelosi and the whole pile of them won't change with polite talk.

They need to be condemned, frequently and loudly. Palin wants to shake up DC. The Shepherds are 40+ years delinquent in their shake up. Now is a great time. Perhaps Archbishop Burke can be more persuasive in his new office.

35 posted on 09/08/2008 4:22:39 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at CpForLife.org)
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To: NYer
Most Rev. Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver

Public Servants and Moral Reasoning:?

A notice to the Catholic community in northern Colorado

Monday, Sept. 8, 2008

To Catholics of the Archdiocese of Denver:

When Catholics serve on the national stage, their actions and words impact the faith of Catholics around the country. As a result, they open themselves to legitimate scrutiny by local Catholics and local bishops on matters of Catholic belief. In 2008, although NBC probably didn't intend it, Meet the Press has become a national window on the flawed moral reasoning of some Catholic public servants.

On August 24, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, describing herself as an ardent, practicing Catholic, misrepresented the overwhelming body of Catholic teaching against abortion to the show's nationwide audience, while defending her "pro-choice" abortion views. On September 7, Sen. Joseph Biden compounded the problem to the same Meet the Press audience.

Sen. Biden is a man of distinguished public service. That doesn't excuse poor logic or bad facts. Asked when life begins, Sen. Biden said that, "it's a personal and private issue." But in reality, modern biology knows exactly when human life begins: at the moment of conception. Religion has nothing to do with it. People might argue when human "personhood" begins - though that leads public policy in very dangerous directions - but no one can any longer claim that the beginning of life is a matter of religious opinion.

Sen. Biden also confused the nature of pluralism. Real pluralism thrives on healthy, non-violent disagreement; it requires an environment where people of conviction will struggle respectfully but vigorously to advance their beliefs. In his interview, the senator observed that other people with strong religious views disagree with the Catholic approach to abortion. It's certainly true that we need to acknowledge the views of other people and compromise whenever possible - but not at the expense of a developing child's right to life. Abortion is a foundational issue; it is not an issue like housing policy or the price of foreign oil. It always involves the intentional killing of an innocent life, and it is always, grievously wrong. If, as Sen. Biden said, "I'm prepared as a matter of faith [emphasis added] to accept that life begins at the moment of conception," then he is not merely wrong about the science of new life; he also fails to defend the innocent life he already knows is there.

As the senator said in his interview, he has opposed public funding for abortions. To his great credit, he also backed a successful ban on partial-birth abortions. But his strong support for the 1973 Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade and the false "right" to abortion it enshrines, can't be excused by any serious Catholic. Support for Roe and the "right to choose" an abortion simply masks what abortion is, and what abortion does. Roe is bad law. As long as it stands, it prevents returning the abortion issue to the states where it belongs, so that the American people can decide its future through fair debate and legislation.

In his Meet the Press interview, Sen. Biden used a morally exhausted argument that American Catholics have been hearing for 40 years: i.e., that Catholics can't "impose" their religiously based views on the rest of the country. But resistance to abortion is a matter of human rights, not religious opinion. And the senator knows very well as a lawmaker that all law involves the imposition of some people's convictions on everyone else. That is the nature of the law. American Catholics have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting the destruction of more than a million developing unborn children a year. Other people have imposed their "pro-choice" beliefs on American society without any remorse for decades.

If we claim to be Catholic, then American Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly. We need to put an end to Roe and the industry of permissive abortion it enables. Otherwise all of us - from senators and members of Congress, to Catholic laypeople in the pews - fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.

+Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver

+James D. Conley
Auxiliary Bishop of Denver

36 posted on 09/08/2008 6:09:11 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: machogirl

Better understand that the Church is divided, with many priests and one must suppose bishops, and of course many laymen not committed, at least more than intellectually, to the doctrines of the Church. An unknown number are merely nominal in their faith. Others are not believers. It is a situation not unlike that of 18th Century France before the Revolution. It took that catastrophe to separate the sheep from the goats, the faithful from the unfaithful. Sometimes I think we are on the brink.


37 posted on 09/08/2008 6:10:50 PM PDT by RobbyS (Ecce homo)
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To: maryz
I’m betting it’s the Pope’s influence.

But is this more than the usual suspects? Chaput's always been a little more outspoken. I think a few bishops have been pushed to say something because, thanks to the internet, Catholic faithful have much more opportunity to voice publicly their dissatisfaction with wimpy bishops.

When the archbishop of Boston announces no priest may publicly celebrate a Catholic funeral for Ted Kennedy or knowingly administer communion to John Kerry or any other pro-abort pol, I'll believe the pope has a hand in the recent outspokenness. Until then, I'll believe it's the laity shining the light of Christ in our Church and the hierarchy are by and large nothing more than a bunch of political hacks.

One final thought. Even the bishops who say something, are they leaving wiggle room? I ask because they usually do. It's rare to see a firm unequivical statement, a la Bruskewitz and the Catholics for a Free Choice.

38 posted on 09/09/2008 8:19:38 AM PDT by old and tired (I guess I'm an official doom and gloomer)
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To: NYer
It said he was personally committed to "a principled and respectful dialogue and engagement with all public officials." He also encouraged all Catholics to engage in such dialogues with people in public office, and to pray for them. Delaware bishops have been low-key with Biden's church involvement
While politicians and prelates "dialogue", the slaughter of the helpless goes on.
39 posted on 09/09/2008 10:04:31 AM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: cpforlife.org; NYer
IMO—the only thing left is to excommunicate. Biden Pelosi and the whole pile of them won't change with polite talk.

Just out of curiosity, how many defiant/deviant Roman Catholics has Archbishop Chaput excommunicated since assuming power in Denver? How many has he addressed publically? Surely there must be some prominent pro-aborts in Denver that need his attention.

But, hey, if their immoral souls are not in danger, what's the big deal?

40 posted on 09/09/2008 10:15:20 AM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: tioga

I know some of those same people here. They just don’t get it!!! 50 million dead American children and people think they can continue to vote for the dems without thinking about the abortion issue. I suppose they think if they themselves aren’t effected by the abortion issue,no big deal.


41 posted on 09/09/2008 10:59:57 AM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: topcat54
Just out of curiosity, how many defiant/deviant Roman Catholics has Archbishop Chaput excommunicated since assuming power in Denver?

You need to update your understanding of excommunication. Good resource

The bishop's responsibility is to educate those who are ignorant in their Catholic faith. When that fails, he has other options. Excommunication is a last resort.

42 posted on 09/09/2008 11:07:27 AM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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To: Aliska

They can speak about issues and people. It’s when it gets to endorsements and specific legislation that it gets tricky.


43 posted on 09/09/2008 11:15:51 AM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: NYer
The bishop's responsibility is to educate those who are ignorant in their Catholic faith. When that fails, he has other options. Excommunication is a last resort.

Sounds like the do-nothing Congress to me. Are Kennedy, Pelosi and Biden's immortal souls in danger or not? Have any of them indicated any sort of willingness to listen to the "dialogue"? Or is the good Archbishop really just preaching to the choir?

44 posted on 09/09/2008 11:45:56 AM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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