Posted on 09/08/2008 1:42:40 PM PDT by NYer
The last two paragraphs sum-up Archbishop Chaput's position:Denver bishops release letter to faithful, stress importance of accurate moral reasoning by public servants
Archbishop Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap. and Auxiliary Bishop James D. Conley have released a new letter to the Catholics of northern Colorado, titled “Public Servants and Moral Reasoning.” In the letter, they reaffirm the importance of informed moral reasoning when discerning public action, especially in regard to Catholics who serve their country on the national stage. Click here to read the full letter (PDF file)
Bishops who have responded to Biden so far: 3.In his Meet the Press interview, Sen. Biden used a morally exhausted argument that American Catholics have been hearing for 40 years: i.e., that Catholics can't "impose" their religiously based views on the rest of the country. But resistance to abortion is a matter of human rights, not religious opinion. And the senator knows very well as a lawmaker that all law involves the imposition of some people's convictions on everyone else. That is the nature of the law. American Catholics have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting the destruction of more than a million developing unborn children a year. Other people have imposed their "pro-choice" beliefs on American society without any remorse for decades.
If we claim to be Catholic, then American Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly. We need to put an end to Roe and the industry of permissive abortion it enables. Otherwise all of us - from senators and members of Congress, to Catholic laypeople in the pews - fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.
Biden-gate :-)
About time!
I think this is due at least in part to the leadership of Pope Benedict.
There have always been high-ranking, pro-abortion Catholics in Washington. I’m wondering why now Church leadership is coming out so vociferously against Biden and Pelosi. I’m all for it, don’t get me wrong.
Its long overdue.
Oh slow Joe Biden, this is why Dummies shouldn’t do theology.
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/09/bp-morlino-of-madsion-on-pelosi-biden-and-the-failure-of-clergy/
you can hear a sermon of Bishop Morlino of Madison, WI quite critical of Biden and Pelosi
I do not know what to make of the bishops finally summoning some leadership. It couldn’t come at a better time.
Pelosi got called called for her comments... so this jerk repeats them. Palin’s gonna’ rip him a new one during the debate!
Amazing. There was a time it would be remarkable for 3 U.S. bishops to respond to this at all, but now we have 3 bishops respond within 24 hours?
try telling that to my Catholic MIL who has been voting dem all her life...........
I’m betting it’s the Pope’s influence. Several bishops have said something before, but it was isolated and sporadic. Giving some of them a shove, though, brings out enough simultaneously to make a much more forceful impression. Keep ‘em coming! ;-)
Maybe the Vatican knows something we don't.
I suspect that his racial/ethnic liberal politics - that only allow him to support Obama (and by extension Pelosi and Kennedy and Biden and Kerry ....) - are more important to him than 43 million aborted taxpayers.
I want to remember this in case I need it for ammo because it is true so by posting it, I can find it again for awhile.
Now there was a thread about a bishop? in WI who scrapped his sermon? s/b homily oh well after Biden's appearance on "Meet the Press", same old tired argument we've heard so much.
My only concern, and I don't do poscast to hear a replay, is that if he brought him up by name in church, I don't know if that crosses the line. I don't want the Catholics to get backed into a corner and risk losing their 501c(3). They have to walk a fine line. Unless you are a liberal church.
This weekend our priest went off in his sermon on how we have to remove the unbeliever from the group, after airing your grievances with him, two or three witnesses, and then The Church.
does kennedy take communion?
i’m a former catholic who did not like the double standard, turn a blind-eye to those “famous” catholics who support abortion and take communion and get an annulment after having children and being married for 20 years.
Biden was speaking in Iowa today. He looked very old, tired, and depressed. How anyone could be inspired by that...It seems like they are bummed out by McCain’s poll numbers in the wake of the convention and the Palin pick.
Pope Benedict would be the reason why we are now getting more action from the bishops about this.
They know they are in for an a$$ whippin'!
yes, teddy takes communion and the spineless American bishops allow it.
Obama complained that pro-life advocates wanted children born alive in botched "live birth" abortions treated the same as if they were a "nine-month-old" child. Well, they are. That's common sense not some obscure theological mystery which people can have different opinions about.
It certainly is not mysterious question of faith or belief that a child born alive in a "live birth" botched abortion is a living and breathing human being, a person, with rights. It's a fact. Biden has a duty as a Catholic to explain this to Obama and to do EVERYTHING within his power to persuade others to understand and oppose this evil. It is not just a personal, subjective opinion, enshrouded in mysteries of faith and belief, that Biden is prevented from "imposing" by some imaginary constitutional principle about the separation of belief and public policy. That abortion takes a human life unlawfully and immorally is within the scope of reason and common sense observation of facts. It is a rational judgement concerning application of natural law and human rights.
because Biden and Peloski both have gone on Meet the Press and spouted incorrect Catholic doctrine.
NOPE!
Nancy & Joe made the mistake of pretending to speak for the Catholic Church.
That makes it an issue for the Church to respond to WITHOUT FEAR OF ANY “SEPARATION” ISSUES!!
his bishop probably doesn’t want to lose his donations$$$$
Show her the dem platform, and ask her if she agrees with it.
Many old-time dems don’t have a clue what their party has been pushing on the national level for the past 40 years.
They just listen to the lies of their local party leaders.
I really do think these Bishops are at a crossroads in the faith doctrine. They are either going to rise up and stand up to these folks, or remain silent.
It doesn't bode well if they do remain quiet.
I am glad that we now have Archbishop Burke at the Vatican. I see him as a driving force behind a stronger stance against these CINO politicians.
When was this? I don’t always get the Georgia Bulletin because the street numbers in our neighborhood are so similar so the mail gets mis-delivered.
I was unaware of Archbishop Gregory’s politics. Can you fill me in?
I’ll keep you posted.
I have a couple of articles to mail to her.....about the pelosi/biden Catholic church broohaha......I will have to find a concise list to add to that.....she is as smug as biden that his will not tarnish her with the Lord.....
Archbishop Chaput rocks! After this abortion thing gets straightened out, maybe someone can take a broom to that mess going on inside the church in San Francisco.
The new Pope and the Americans can get this sorted in no time.
I really like it. LOL
Can't be said forcefully enough.
IMO—the only thing left is to excommunicate. Biden Pelosi and the whole pile of them won't change with polite talk.
They need to be condemned, frequently and loudly. Palin wants to shake up DC. The Shepherds are 40+ years delinquent in their shake up. Now is a great time. Perhaps Archbishop Burke can be more persuasive in his new office.
Monday, Sept. 8, 2008
To Catholics of the Archdiocese of Denver:
When Catholics serve on the national stage, their actions and words impact the faith of Catholics around the country. As a result, they open themselves to legitimate scrutiny by local Catholics and local bishops on matters of Catholic belief. In 2008, although NBC probably didn't intend it, Meet the Press has become a national window on the flawed moral reasoning of some Catholic public servants.
On August 24, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, describing herself as an ardent, practicing Catholic, misrepresented the overwhelming body of Catholic teaching against abortion to the show's nationwide audience, while defending her "pro-choice" abortion views. On September 7, Sen. Joseph Biden compounded the problem to the same Meet the Press audience.
Sen. Biden is a man of distinguished public service. That doesn't excuse poor logic or bad facts. Asked when life begins, Sen. Biden said that, "it's a personal and private issue." But in reality, modern biology knows exactly when human life begins: at the moment of conception. Religion has nothing to do with it. People might argue when human "personhood" begins - though that leads public policy in very dangerous directions - but no one can any longer claim that the beginning of life is a matter of religious opinion.
Sen. Biden also confused the nature of pluralism. Real pluralism thrives on healthy, non-violent disagreement; it requires an environment where people of conviction will struggle respectfully but vigorously to advance their beliefs. In his interview, the senator observed that other people with strong religious views disagree with the Catholic approach to abortion. It's certainly true that we need to acknowledge the views of other people and compromise whenever possible - but not at the expense of a developing child's right to life. Abortion is a foundational issue; it is not an issue like housing policy or the price of foreign oil. It always involves the intentional killing of an innocent life, and it is always, grievously wrong. If, as Sen. Biden said, "I'm prepared as a matter of faith [emphasis added] to accept that life begins at the moment of conception," then he is not merely wrong about the science of new life; he also fails to defend the innocent life he already knows is there.
As the senator said in his interview, he has opposed public funding for abortions. To his great credit, he also backed a successful ban on partial-birth abortions. But his strong support for the 1973 Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade and the false "right" to abortion it enshrines, can't be excused by any serious Catholic. Support for Roe and the "right to choose" an abortion simply masks what abortion is, and what abortion does. Roe is bad law. As long as it stands, it prevents returning the abortion issue to the states where it belongs, so that the American people can decide its future through fair debate and legislation.
In his Meet the Press interview, Sen. Biden used a morally exhausted argument that American Catholics have been hearing for 40 years: i.e., that Catholics can't "impose" their religiously based views on the rest of the country. But resistance to abortion is a matter of human rights, not religious opinion. And the senator knows very well as a lawmaker that all law involves the imposition of some people's convictions on everyone else. That is the nature of the law. American Catholics have allowed themselves to be bullied into accepting the destruction of more than a million developing unborn children a year. Other people have imposed their "pro-choice" beliefs on American society without any remorse for decades.
If we claim to be Catholic, then American Catholics, including public officials who describe themselves as Catholic, need to act accordingly. We need to put an end to Roe and the industry of permissive abortion it enables. Otherwise all of us - from senators and members of Congress, to Catholic laypeople in the pews - fail not only as believers and disciples, but also as citizens.
+Charles J. Chaput, O.F.M. Cap.
Archbishop of Denver
+James D. Conley
Auxiliary Bishop of Denver
Better understand that the Church is divided, with many priests and one must suppose bishops, and of course many laymen not committed, at least more than intellectually, to the doctrines of the Church. An unknown number are merely nominal in their faith. Others are not believers. It is a situation not unlike that of 18th Century France before the Revolution. It took that catastrophe to separate the sheep from the goats, the faithful from the unfaithful. Sometimes I think we are on the brink.
But is this more than the usual suspects? Chaput's always been a little more outspoken. I think a few bishops have been pushed to say something because, thanks to the internet, Catholic faithful have much more opportunity to voice publicly their dissatisfaction with wimpy bishops.
When the archbishop of Boston announces no priest may publicly celebrate a Catholic funeral for Ted Kennedy or knowingly administer communion to John Kerry or any other pro-abort pol, I'll believe the pope has a hand in the recent outspokenness. Until then, I'll believe it's the laity shining the light of Christ in our Church and the hierarchy are by and large nothing more than a bunch of political hacks.
One final thought. Even the bishops who say something, are they leaving wiggle room? I ask because they usually do. It's rare to see a firm unequivical statement, a la Bruskewitz and the Catholics for a Free Choice.
It said he was personally committed to "a principled and respectful dialogue and engagement with all public officials." He also encouraged all Catholics to engage in such dialogues with people in public office, and to pray for them. Delaware bishops have been low-key with Biden's church involvementWhile politicians and prelates "dialogue", the slaughter of the helpless goes on.
Just out of curiosity, how many defiant/deviant Roman Catholics has Archbishop Chaput excommunicated since assuming power in Denver? How many has he addressed publically? Surely there must be some prominent pro-aborts in Denver that need his attention.
But, hey, if their immoral souls are not in danger, what's the big deal?
I know some of those same people here. They just don’t get it!!! 50 million dead American children and people think they can continue to vote for the dems without thinking about the abortion issue. I suppose they think if they themselves aren’t effected by the abortion issue,no big deal.
You need to update your understanding of excommunication. Good resource
The bishop's responsibility is to educate those who are ignorant in their Catholic faith. When that fails, he has other options. Excommunication is a last resort.
They can speak about issues and people. It’s when it gets to endorsements and specific legislation that it gets tricky.
Sounds like the do-nothing Congress to me. Are Kennedy, Pelosi and Biden's immortal souls in danger or not? Have any of them indicated any sort of willingness to listen to the "dialogue"? Or is the good Archbishop really just preaching to the choir?
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