666 and the Mark of the Beast

Kim Riddlebarger ^

[Quix]

Good points.

Thanks.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The futurist approach to Revelation is misguided because it pushes off into the distant future what was already a serious threat to Christians in the first century (emperor worship), by ignoring the historical context for the visions of Revelation 13 and 17. Instead, John’s comments about the mark of the beast should be seen against the backdrop of the imperial cult and the worship of the Roman emperor. The emperor’s blasphemous image was everywhere in John’s world (Asia Minor), from coins to statues identifying various emperors as deities in most major cities ( cf. S. R. F. Price, Rituals and Power: The Roman Imperial Cult in Asia Minor, Cambridge University Press, 1984).

AMEN. Same old, same old.

[NavyCanDo]

In the 1980’s I read the book “The New Money System: 666” by Ph.D. Mary Stewart Relfe. Much of the book was highly speculative, as where many of the end-times books popular in the 70’s and 80’s, but the part explaining the bar-code was very very interesting. You really can see 666 represented by the bar code lines. Now is this the mark of the beast we were warned about?, I don’t know. But still makes you wonder.

http://www.amazon.com/New-Money-System-666/dp/B0006YL7K2

http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html

[NavyCanDo]

ANATOMY OF A BARCODE (Very Interesting)

http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html

[ReformedBeckite]

Admittedly I don't understand all of it nor do I believe I'm meant to. Footnotes in my Douay Rheims Catholic bible say it has all been fulfilled, but there are a small minority of Catholics who believe it ...

Interesting I always wondered how most or some of the Catholics interrupted this. I have some Christians in my family that believe that worshiping on Sunday is worshiping the beast, but my gut feelings is that most of the people in that denomination don't really believe in that anyway, at least my relatives don't bring it up when I'm around.

[Aliska]

Thanks for the input. I remembered the books, "Book of Destiny" by Herbert Kramer. It definitely has distinctly Catholic view, but interprets it as a sweeping view of history, and he had studied that book for 30 years or more. The other book was, I believe, "The Antichrist" by Vincent? Miceli, also available from TAN books. There are some differences with Protestant interpretation; that is to be expected. The Book of Destiny is a little hard to follow, and wasn't too specific when it came to the mark.

I can defend Sunday worship as that was called the Lord's Day in the bible (first day of the week they met) plus the earliest Jewish Christians were excommunicated (not in the bible but think it is historically verified elsewhere which was the definite turning point; they had been keeping the Sabbath up until then). I have come to believe that Saturday is still the official Sabbath but don't have a clue what to do about it now, am not about to get involved in Seventh Day Adventists but not that they are bad people. Even though the calendar was changed, the Jews point us to the Sabbath has been observed the same no matter where they were in the diaspora; they maintained their faith all those centuries.

I wasn't quite sure if I read what you said right; IF what I think now is possible, I can see how many Catholics might get deceived, I don't want to start bashing them over it because we don't know yet. Most don't seem to believe but some are coming around on at least part of it. No sense in arguing about it with family because nobody knows for sure at this point in time.

I'm no fan of Alex Jones, but he's the one who broke the story about the chip and the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona, later I found it corroborated in a respected British paper, can't remember which one. It was curious that, until then, the chip was not used for buying and selling. But in that instance it definitely was. It's also curious that it was first introducted in a traditionally Catholic country (Spain), then Mexico for government access and security (not buying and selling in the latter case).

For myself, I don't know for sure and certainly wouldn't want to lead anyone astray, but if I am to err, would rather err on the side of caution. I don't think the chip as it is used in most applications right now is the mark, but still don't want it, didn't even want to chip my cats or my grandchildren (not up to me), rely on faith instead. I will say if it comes and I'm still alive, my faith will be sorely tested for sure. Maybe there will be a way of escape, plus at a certain point in the troubles, Rev says something about at a certain point in the events to come, "Blessed are those who die in the Lord."

[ReformedBeckite]

Well I don't agree with the Seventh-Day-Adventist either, which is what my relatives are, and since I'm a Protestant more in line with Martin Luther and Calvin we probably might also have some disagreements, But I think I'll pick worshipping with a Catholic before I would pick worshipping with a Adventist, either way I'll probably go fishing a lot on both days.

[ReformedBeckite]

Good question, I've studied Revelation from both the authors view point and I thought it was a very good view point. The authors view point is basically postmillennialism, I hold to a more amillennialism view but not quiet, I tell you this so you might be able to look it up on the Internet or the authors web site. I hope to take your question and look it up myself, but I'm pretty busy so please don't hold your breath for me, plus I'm not to good on the discussion part of the forum.

[ReformedBeckite]

Ping back to you two, I don’t know if it’s appropriate to bring you back to this old interrupted thread, but I thought the freeper in #27 had a good question enough to ping you back to it.

[Aliska]

I'm a lapsed Catholic at the moment but converted later in life, just some issues I thought I could accept but am not comfortable with. I listen to what they all have to say if they don't come across as total whackjobs, hateful, and bigoted.

There are good and good people and teachings in all of them and maybe some not so good. I don't know much about Adventists, think I'd feel out of place with them, just worked with one once and stuck up for her because they were giving her some heat about not working overtime on Saturday. Shrug. Live and let live.

It's been hard for me to shake my Protestant roots, not so much doctrinally but culturally. I definitely believe the Catholics are right about a lot of things. I came out of the Methodist church which got too liberal for me, hardly any bible teaching since my Sunday school days, sermons that are too watered down, then wandered through Pentacostalism, then Catholic, now I don't know what, wandering the the wilderness figuratively speaking I guess. I still believe; some would say that isn't enough. It's their problem.

IOW, I'm kind of stuck, but am more open to other ways of thinking than I would have been so long as it is biblically based insofar as it is laid out clearly which some isn't for me. I think the Holy Spirit can and does speak to people of all denominations if they are sincere, without guile, and their heart is in the right place. I certainly don't presume to be an expert about any of it.

To me, we don't need any other philosophical system than that laid out by Our Lord himself in the scriptures even though I'm no expert there either.

I like discussing views, just don't like bitter arguments or "you have to do it my way or else".

[Grizzled Bear]

Right. I’ll just grab my towel and head to the pub for several pints of strong lager. Then I’ll have a lay-down on the village green.

So long, and thanks for all the fish...

[Grizzled Bear]

I'm still open to a biblical interpretation that it is what it appears to be, but don't believe it is the mark of the beast which may be fanciful or literal (I lean to literal at some future point and think the RFID chip if it becomes required for buying and selling will be the mark Christians are supposed to refuse). I don't know how the code works in those chips.

When the use of the RFID chip becomes...invasive...that's when you know it's time to worry...

[Rammer]

Thanks for your reply. I’m always curious to hear other interpretations, but please don’t spend too much time trying to figure it out for me. I can look it up when I get a chance.

Thanks again! :)

[Lee N. Field]

The events foretold in Daniel, the NT, and Revelation were completed in A.D. 70.

So.....nothing remains? This is the eternal state?

[Lee N. Field]

No, Daniel’s prophecy wasn’t completed, there is one more week left in Daniel’s 70 weeks of years

Which we're still in, BTW.

[Lee N. Field]

've been aware of this for many years now; the first I got wind of it was a book by Mary Stewart Relfe who claimed a brother out east somewhere was given it to him by something like a word of knowledge and sent it to her,

Ohhh-key, then. That's enough to make me discount it, right there.

but don't believe it is the mark of the beast which may be fanciful or literal

If and when that time comes, they won't need a literal mark, or an implanted RFID chip. "The system" will recognize you by your face and gait. The database will be distributed. Like DNS, a query will go as far as it has to.

Read a story, not too long ago, about how China is deploying ubiquitous surveillance in some of it's cities. Here in the Land of the Less-free-than-we-were, there's talk-talk about using traffic cams to keep track of us.

[Lee N. Field]

Much of the book was highly speculative, as where many of the end-times books popular in the 70’s and 80’s,

And they're not now? Just look at the stuff Worldnetdaily is pushing these days.

[Lee N. Field]

But I think I'll pick worshipping with a Catholic before I would pick worshipping with a Adventist,

Did some digging recently, into the issue of Christians and the OT festivals. Turns out, most of the groups pushing it (outside the extreme charismatic types, and who knows what belly rumble or passing spirit they get their ideas from) have Adventist influence. And so, interestingly, did the founder of the JWs, Charles Taze Russell.

[Aliska]

Well Relfe was years ago, but being a computer programmer, I found it most curious about those 3 field separators that LOOKED like 6's. To the right of the center double vertical bars, UPC codes with 6 printed underneath them LOOK exactly alike. So have it your way, it sounds like you think she is flaky.

I agree with what you said about the rest of it, but the bible is so specific about the mark being in your hand or forehead. Loosely, I suppose face recognition or some other kind of hi-tech tracking might fit, but the King James translation renders the preposition "in" which would imply embedded. No, I think it will be something we are forced to submit to under pain of death or loss of privileges and implanted in our bodies. It wouldn't necessarily be THE current RFID chip, but something comparable. I don't completely understand what worshipping the beast would mean though, can't imagine worshipping any human at this point in my life unless Jesus comes back like he said, descending from the clouds, said every eye would see him. I have trouble with the geography of that, don't think I'd accept anything I saw on a tv screen.

Until we actually get completely to that point which I may not live to see and could very well miss when it does come for believing that part of the bible literally, I am not going to know for sure. I'm just trying to be psychologically and spiritually prepared to resist whatever it is, again, if I live to that time which could be very near.

My only problem is that implementing it with every person on the whole earth would be logistically very difficult, particularly in third-world countries.

[ReformedBeckite]

...Turns out, most of the groups pushing it...

Ok you lost me, you have to be more specific, what is the It referring to.