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To: Desdemona

Thanks. I’d like to know a little more (like where the traditions are written or when they came about). I also believe that Michael and Gabriel are archangels but Raphael was a new one on me.

I just don’t believe in the personal angel thing. It’s way too much like the pagan beliefs. It is good enough for me to know that my Lord will send his angels to protect and guard me and I have faith in that.

BTW, how did you find out that names ending in -iel and -ael are archangels? If you have some kind of source, that’d be nice. Sometimes my bible study has discussed angels and it’d be nice to have some more info. Of course we don’t all agree either.


45 posted on 09/30/2008 3:04:10 PM PDT by Paved Paradise
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To: Paved Paradise
With reference to resemblance to pagan beliefs . . . .

I would highly recommend C.S. Lewis, who said, "I couldn’t believe that 999 religions were completely false and the remaining one true. . . . We are not pronouncing all other religions to be totally false, but rather saying that in Christ whatever is true in all religions is consummated and perfected."

Many of the pagan religions have foreshadowings of Christ -- the Corn God who dies and rises again, the virgin birth, etc. In Christ all these hints and foreshadowings were made plain.

But of course we don't reject the Resurrection because it appears in Egyptian or Babylonian religion as well . . . nor should we reject guardian angels.

Just don't get all New-Agey about it! < shudder! >

50 posted on 09/30/2008 3:29:40 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother (Ministrix of ye Chasse (TTGC Ladies Auxiliary, recess appointment))
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To: Paved Paradise; Desdemona
I just don’t believe in the personal angel thing. It’s way too much like the pagan beliefs. It is good enough for me to know that my Lord will send his angels to protect and guard me and I have faith in that.

Actually, there is some truth in that. This belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all antiquity; pagans, like Menander and Plutarch (cf. Eusebius, "Praep. Evang.", xii), and Neo-Platonists, like Plotinus, held it. It was also the belief of the Babylonians and Assyrians, as their monuments testify, for a figure of a guardian angel now in the British Museum once decorated an Assyrian palace, and might well serve for a modern representation; while Nabopolassar, father of Nebuchadnezzar the Great, says: "He (Marduk) sent a tutelary deity (cherub) of grace to go at my side; in everything that I did, he made my work to succeed."

However, in the Bible this doctrine is clearly discernible and its development is well marked. In Genesis 28-29, angels not only act as the executors of God's wrath against the cities of the plain, but they deliver Lot from danger; in Exodus 12-13, an angel is the appointed leader of the host of Israel, and in 32:34, God says to Moses: "my angel shall go before thee." At a much later period we have the story of Tobias, which might serve for a commentary on the words of Psalm 90:11: "For he hath given his angels charge over thee; to keep thee in all thy ways." (Cf. Psalm 33:8 and 34:5) Lastly, in Daniel 10 angels are entrusted with the care of particular districts; one is called "prince of the kingdom of the Persians", and Michael is termed "one of the chief princes"; cf. Deuteronomy 32:8 (Septuagint); and Ecclesiasticus 17:17 (Septuagint).

This sums up the Old Testament doctrine on the point; it is clear that the Old Testament conceived of God's angels as His ministers who carried out his behests, and who were at times given special commissions, regarding men and mundane affairs. There is no special teaching; the doctrine is rather taken for granted than expressly laid down; cf. 2 Maccabees 3:25; 10:29; 11:6; 15:23. cf

Raphael was a new one on me.

The name of this archangel (Raphael = "God has healed") does not appear in the Hebrew Scriptures, and in the Septuagint only in the Book of Tobias. Here he first appears disguised in human form as the travelling companion of the younger Tobias, calling himself "Azarias the son of the great Ananias". The story of the adventurous journey during which the protective influence of the angel is shown in many ways including the binding "in the desert of upper Egypt" of the demon who had previously slain seven husbands of Sara, daughter of Raguel, is picturesquely related in Tobit 5-11, to which the reader is referred. After the return and the healing of the blindness of the elder Tobias, Azarias makes himself known as "the angel Raphael, one of the seven, who stand before the Lord" (Tobit 12:15. Cf. Revelation 8:2). Of these seven "archangels" which appear in the angelology of post-Exilic Judaism, only three, Gabriel, Michael and Raphael, are mentioned in the canonical Scriptures. The others, according to the Book of Enoch (cf. xxi) are Uriel, Raguel, Sariel, and Jerahmeel, while from other apocryphal sources we get the variant names Izidkiel, Hanael, and Kepharel instead of the last three in the other list. cf

52 posted on 09/30/2008 3:47:34 PM PDT by NYer ("Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ." - St. Jerome)
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