Catholic Caucus: Pelosi/Biden violate separation of Church and State

Various

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For Senator Joe Biden, the webpage and reference are:

[Catholic Citizens of Illinois] Does Joe Biden have a Catholic problem

But it's the renewed confidence and assertiveness of Catholic Democrats that may have gotten Biden in trouble. During a September 7 appearance on Meet the Press, moderator Tom Brokaw asked Biden to answer the question "When does life begin?" From a Catholic standpoint, the Democratic candidate started off well, telling Brokaw, "As a Roman Catholic, I'm prepared to accept the teachings of my church - I'm prepared as a matter of faith to accept that life begins at the moment of conception."

If he'd stopped there, Biden would have been fine. But he went on to argue that there was a debate about the question in the Catholic Church, throwing in a Thomas Aquinas "Summa Theologia" reference for good measure. It was that extra flourish that got the attention of the bishops, according to Father Thomas Reese, senior fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center. "Politicians should not do theology," says Reese. "Whenever they start interpreting Catholic teaching, they invite Catholic bishops to jump all over them." Within days, Cardinal Justin Rigali, who heads the USCCB committee on pro-life activities, and Bishop William Lori, who chairs the committee on doctrine, drafted a statement outlining Biden's theological errors that was released on behalf of the entire bishops conference - a rebuke not even Kerry received in 2004.

For Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, it is found in this statement released by the office of Congresswoman Pelosi:

[Amy Welborn] Charlotte's Response

“The Speaker is the mother of five children and seven grandchildren and fully appreciates the sanctity of family. She was raised in a devout Catholic family who often disagreed with her pro-choice views.

“After she was elected to Congress, and the choice issue became more public as she would have to vote on it, she studied the matter more closely. Her views on when life begins were informed by the views of Saint Augustine, who said: ‘…the law does not provide that the act [abortion] pertains to homicide, for there cannot yet be said to be a live soul in a body that lacks sensation…’ (Saint Augustine, On Exodus 21.22)

“While Catholic teaching is clear that life begins at conception, many Catholics do not ascribe to that view. The Speaker agrees with the Church that we should reduce the number of abortions. She believes that can be done by making family planning more available, as well as by increasing the number of comprehensive age-appropriate sex education and caring adoption programs.

“The Speaker has a long, proud record of working with the Catholic Church on many issues, including alleviating poverty and promoting social justice and peace.”

These are clearly examples of the violation of Church and State. Senator Biden and Speaker of the House Pelosi are claiming to be experts on the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church and are stating why abortion is okay.

This is similar to King Henry VIII of England -- with his need for divorce and the Roman Catholic Church standing strong on this issue.

Ol' King Henry violated the Separation of Church and State by establishing a new Church that was headed by the Monarchy of England -- the Church of England.

Senator Biden and Speaker Pelosi are trying to divide American Catholics by trying to state What Catholic Teaching is.

They are instead introducing errors into the Catholic Church because of their prominence as political leaders.

A similar problem was almost endured by Saint Vincent de Paul when the Queen of France asked him to name a Bishop of a person who was clearly qualified.

The saint initially refused. The Queen had great respect for Saint Vincent de Paul, but only gave him until the next day to name the new bishop (as the name that she, the Queen, gave him). The saint was to write the name of the bishop chosen by the Queen on a sheet of paper. The paper was to be given to the Queen the next day. The Queen could have had the saint executed for disobedience in this case. That night Saint Vincent de Paul thought long and hard on this problem...

The next day, the Queen was outraged by Saint Vincent de Paul's action. That was namely handing the Queen of France a blank sheet of paper. The saint explained that the Queen of France had the power to name the new bishop and write the name herself to name this person as bishop.

The Queen of France refused to name the bad bishop, but gave the saint the unpleasant task of telling the mother of the proposed bishop the bad news.

Apparently the mother of the person did not like the news. She threw and hit Saint Vincent de Paul with an iron (as for laundry) in the forehead.

The saint, though injured, was as happy the confrontation was over.

Clearly, in the case of Senator Biden and Speaker Pelosi, American Bishops have stepped in to show the error of the statements by Senator Biden and Speaker Pelosi.

But that does not excuse the actions of Senator Biden and Speaker Pelosi for what they truly are: violations of the separtion of Church and State.

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The various bishops who have rebutted Biden/Pelosi are clear evidence of this being a violation of Separation of Church and State... Clearly, this separation has been violated a number of times over the centuries -- sometimes for the good of the Christian Church -- sometimes causing problems for the Church.

When a Roman Emporer came to power who was supportive of Christians, this provided a protector of Christians in the Roman Emprice, but this emporer did not state what he thought the teachings of the Church should be -- as Pelosi and Biden have done.

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Another note about the life of Saint Vincent de Paul is that the Queen of France wanted to name the saint as a cardinal in the Church. Saint Vincent de Paul refused, and the vacancy was filled by Cardinal Richelieu (of the story of the Three Musketeers, a novel based on a diary found by the author of the novel...)

[CanadianMusherinMI]

“While Catholic teaching is clear that life begins at conception, many Catholics do not ascribe to that view”.
why dont they become something other than a Catholic then? you know, like a univeralist. just more “change the Church from the inside crowd.” GO AWAY!!!! and for the record these two violate me every time they open their mouths!

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Catholic Encyclopedia pages on Saint Vincent de Paul and Cardinal Richelieu:

Armand-Jean du Plessis, Duke de Richelieu [Cardinal]

Saint Vincent de Paul

The queen in question must have been: Queen Marguerite of Valois

I believe the Queen was basically a good person, but the case of the nomination of the bishop was trying to appease the bidding of a powerful woman at court.

The biography was one that I believe I had gotten from TAN Books on the saint (but I will have to check that).

I think the story of Saint Vincent de Paul give an idea to some of the political intrigue saints have to endure, and why Saint Vincent de Paul did not want to be a Cardinal...

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There is this picture from Reuter's of Nancy Pelosi kissing Pope Benedict's ring.

[I will only provide the link -- click on it if you are interested in the photo...]

Title from Reuters: Nancy Pelosi kisses Pope Benedict’s ring in Washington as President George Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice look on, 16 April 2008//Larry Downing

[Apparently the photo is attributed to Larry Downing...]

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I believe this is the book about Saint Vincent de Paul where I read this story:

St. Vincent De Paul by F. A. Forbes