Posted on 10/23/2008 8:29:51 AM PDT by Terriergal
Pagitt and Jones have attracted national attention for calling on Christians to re-consider their theological assumptions. Solomon's Porch is the laboratory for their experiment. Pagitt started the church in 2000 after a stint as the youth pastor at Wooddale Church, a suburban megachurch led by National Association of Evangelicals (NAE) president Leith Anderson. Before moving to its current location, Solomon's Porch gathered in a downtown neighborhood near John Piper and Bethlehem Baptist Church. Piper has publicly criticized emergent, as he earlier had criticized St. Paul pastor Greg Boyd, a controversial advocate of open theism.
...(snip)
The limits of Piper's flexibility, however, were evident in a meeting with his neighbors Jones and Pagitt. Jones invited Piper to lunch after he saw the promotional material for Piper's 2006 Desiring God National Conference, "The Supremacy of Christ in a Postmodern World." Jones rightly guessed that conference speakers would criticize emergent theology. "My e-mail was an olive branch: an invitation to lunch and an assurance that we both share a commitment to proclaiming Christ," Jones wrote in The New Christians. But the Christ they preach looks quite different. Dining at Olive Garden, Piper struggled to understand how Jones and Pagitt think.
"There are profound epistemological differences—ways of processing reality—that make conversation almost impossible, as if we were just kind of going by each other," Piper explained at the conference. He pressed them to explain their views on Christ's atonement. Jones pressed back, questioning whether the Atonement should be understood as a substitutionary sacrifice. He asked, "What do you tell your congregation about how Christians understood the Atonement for the thousand years prior to Anselm?"
"You should never preach," Jones re-membered Piper saying in response.
(Excerpt) Read more at christianitytoday.com ...
And I'm still mad at Piper for putting out that stupid Paul Tripp S-Word video in order to promote his Desiring God Conference this year. Just as Mark Driscoll is starting to 'get it' about vulgarity, Piper starts to do it. Sheesh.
“He asked, “What do you tell your congregation about how Christians understood the Atonement for the thousand years prior to Anselm?”
Favor me by explaining what the heck this Tony Jones character means by this statment? I clicked the link but see that the context is somewhere in a 7 page article. Is he an open theist? a liberal? both?
It sounds to me like they’ve got a triple problem of false doctrine and heresy up in Minneapolis/St. Paul. Paggitt & Jones are into the emergent error, Greg Boyd denies the Omniscience of God with His “Open Theism,” and then there is the age-old error of John Piper’s hyper-Calvinism.
Messed up!
JDW
You can start here:
http://apprising.org/category/tony-jones/
He is one of the leaders of the emergent/emerging church. It was him or one of the other leaders who said that Christ’s substitutionary atonement was divine child abuse. They believe in universal salvation, but good luck getting them to admit to it. The emerging church heresy is worming its way into many churches and deceiving many Christians!
It’s probably a waste of time for me to point out to you that by definition of terms, John Piper is not a hyper-Calvinist.
He likely adheres to an infralapsarian view of God’s decrees...
A quick search for explanatory material on Google yielded this acceptable page...
http://www.albatrus.org/english/theology/soteriology/supralapsarianism_infralapsarianism.htm
FYI
The reason I said “waste of time” is because it is fairly unproductive to pursue a discussion on the merits of Supra or Infralapsarianism...
Best to you.
I have not read anything Piper has written that directly states his position one way or the other but I would think Piper would agree with Supralapsarianism.For God to wait till after the fall to decide does not sound like a view Piper would present on God.
Well, we could ask him....
:-)
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