Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Buggman
You're actually making my point for me. The Bible consistently speaks to future generations in a present tense quite frequently--and this literary trait does not simply vanish in the NT. Therefore, when you consider a statement like, "this generation," you cannot rule out the possibility that:

However, the phrase "this generation" as we find it in Matthew 24 and Luke 21 is unlike anything you quoted in those passages from Deuteronomy. "You and your descendent" does not mean a single generation as I pointed out. And neither it nor "this generation" carries some mythical multiple fulfillments.

Of course you also fail to see that Deuteronomy is not a prophecy, but language flowing from the giving of the Law. It is a statement of conditions; do this and be blessed, don’t do this and be cursed. It is part of God’s legal code; conditions of the covenant. The choice was before Israel. There is no language of predication of events that must happen by necessity.

By way of contrast, there is no conditional language ala Deut. 30 in Matthew 24 or Luke 21. It is a prophecy (prediction) of what will be.

In fact, if you wished you could find similar language in the OT to see its meaning. E.g.,: "Surely not one of these men of this evil generation shall see that good land of which I swore to give to your fathers," (Deut. 1:35, cf. Gen. 7:1)

A specific generation was in view, the one that failed to enter into the promised land because of their sin. They wandered for 40 years until "this generation" eventually died off.

Then of course there are all the other places in the NT where the phrase is plainly referring to the contemporary 1st century generation (cf. Matt. 12:41).

However, there remain fine details of the prophecy that have never been fulfilled:

That is a matter of debate based on interpretative principles. It can only be said that the prophecy has not been fulfilled it one requires an unnecessarily literal interpretation of the text, or confuses those portions which are near in view vs. those which are more distant. Again, reading the time text is critical to a proper interpretation.

You're so close to the truth. Where we disagree is on what it means that "all Israel will be saved."

Interesting. How can you be sure? I don’t believe you have ever said what you believe it means.

16 posted on 10/23/2008 1:46:41 PM PDT by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies ]


To: topcat54
"You and your descendent" does not mean a single generation as I pointed out.

Again, "you," when coupled with "your descendants" necessarily implies that the "you" refers to those present right at that moment.

Put it this way: If I said to an audience of Republicans, "Someday, you will have back the government the Founders intended," one could easily infer that by "you" I was speaking to the country as a whole, and that I might expect that such a change could take more than one generation.

If, on the other hand, I said, "Someday, you and your children will have back the government the Founders intended," that would imply that I expected it to happen in one generation, since "your children" would cover all future generations, making the "you" redundant and misleading unless I expected those actually there to experience that event. It establishes a time marker.

Either Moses didn't know what he was talking about, or Hebraic thought handles such "markers" differently than Western thought does.

The answer of the rabbis is that why so phrasing his speech, Moses was making the prophecy imminent for all generations, and giving all generations the responsibility to repent. In the same way, all of the prophetic writers spoke of the Day of the Lord as "near," "at hand," etc., even when the events, even by preterist standards, were centuries away. Why? Because their goal was to get Israel to repent now, not forty, a hundred, or a thousand years from now.

So too it is with Yeshua's warnings to "this generation." There was indeed a judgment for that generation, but His words have another meaning: Israel as a people will not pass away until all has been fulfilled--a fact of history at this point--and every generation has the responsibility to repent with the expectation of the imminent judgment of God.

One last point, and then I have to run: Of course you also fail to see that Deuteronomy is not a prophecy, but language flowing from the giving of the Law.

On the contrary, the Torah is indeed a book of prophecy. Why else do you think that Yeshua repeatedly claimed that it prophesied of Him? Indeed, the more I study it, the more I realize the truth of the rabbinic tradition that all that the later prophets prophesied can be found in the Torah, if you know where to look.

The prophetic nature of the Torah, even to the point that the history that it records points to Yeshua, has long been accepted by Christian scholars. Here are a couple of refresher courses if you need them: The Feasts and the Exodus and The Messiah in Genesis.

Hopefully I'll have more chance to post tomorrow at lunch. Shalom!

20 posted on 10/23/2008 2:09:28 PM PDT by Buggman (HebrewRoot.com - Baruch haBa b'Shem ADONAI!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson