Posted on 10/26/2008 3:41:25 PM PDT by Countyline
I fully believe this is what Biden was referring to when he said an international crisis would strike in the first 6 mos of obama’s term (GOD FORBID HE WINS) and where he referenced that the majority of American’s would not like their stance. I think he knows something’s imminent w/ iran/Israel (since he and BO just got briefed at the WH) and that BO won’t defend Israel.
He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning. Daniel 2:21
AmericaUnited said — “I guess if you believe that God just randomly judges nations regardless of what their citizens do then you are right. But to me that’s very weird and has no historical basis in scripture.”
Hmmm..., so you think I was saying that God “rolls the dice” (i.e., randomly)... LOL... You’re pretty funny all right...
I guess you just don’t “get God” then, do you? For example, Daniel, Meshach, Shadrach and Abednego definitely were taken captive when the nation of Israel was conquered by a Godless nation (i.e., at least not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) — and I would say, “as individuals” in the nation of Israel, those were Godly men (probably along with many other Godly men and their families in Israel). And yet, Israel was conquered and their nation plundered and people hauled off to another nation to serve under a foreign king.
The very same thing could happen here — but not by God “rolling the dice”... LOL...
It will be because of God’s divine judgment and even in spite of Godly people being in the nation. That’s definitely “historical”, in the Bible, with Israel and its people.
Like I said, this seems to be beyond “your level” at this point — for some reason. I don’t know why. It’s all in the Bible and is pretty clear.
God didn’t hold Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego responsible for Israel being conquered, but they were responsible for their individual actions, as God would have them obey Him.
And, once again (which seems to be too difficult for you, for some reason)...
Vote for candidates that promote God’s righteousness on earth (if you can find any) and do *not* vote for those who do *not* promote God’s righteousness on this earth. I would say that should be a Christian’s duty.
Leave the U.S.’s destiny up to God, as that’s His responsibility, as the Bible makes clear (with all nations..., because God will judge all the nations...).
There is another passage in addition to the ones you listed.
“He changes times and seasons; he sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.” Daniel 2:21 (NIV)
However, I think one of the ones you listed IS speaking about God selecting leaders.
“Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.” Romans 13:1 (NIV)
Jesus himself, when speaking to Pilate before he rendered his decision to have him crucified, said, “You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above.” John 19:11 (ESV).
I believe that God DOES decide who becomes president, or king, or prime minister, etc. The “bad” news is that he has chosen “evil” leaders to rule—at times. Why? I have no idea. The good news is that, ultimately, God is REALLY in control.
I am so with you on this topic. We need to pray in righteous leaders to rule our nation. We have not taken our place as the body of christ in this earth, that is why this great nation is becoming increasingly wicked. Whatever happened to “THY KINGDOM COME THY WILL BE DONE IN THIS EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!?” We are to establish His kingdom in this earth, and it greatly helps to have RIGHTEOUS leaders establishing laws in this land. This nation is just as Israel, it is founded on Judeo-Christian principles. The same God. He says to CHOOSE LIFE- for blessing. To stand firm in our liberty that has been obtained through Christ. This free nation was a gift from our God-to be dedicated unto Him. The freedom to worship Him and live by His laws WITHOUT persecution. Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD. We should continue to fight for this freedom on our knees and the guiding of the HOLY GHOST.
Bless you for your comment. Many in the church need rebuke for passivity and apathy. We should be concerned about the law of our land, because we are the ones with the influence to change it through our prayers and our God.
I believe that as a nation turns from God unto idols and sin and the righteous stop crying out for justice and mercy, that God allows the nation to receive the fruit of its choosing. When the people have again cried out to God for mercy and justice and they forsake their idols and their sin, God chooses to deliver them and heal their land. I believe many more Christians have risen up and grabbed a hold of God over this election, begging for His justice and mercy again in this earth. People are seeking really hard for righteousness again to be re-established in this earth. God is beckoning His people to pray that He may bless us and give our land this victory that the righteous so desire.
Daniel 9:
And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting and sackcloth and ashes. 4 And I prayed unto Jehovah my God, and made confession, and said, Oh, Lord, the great and dreadful God, who keepeth covenant and lovingkindness with them that love him and keep his commandments, 5 we have sinned, and have dealt perversely, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even turning aside from thy precepts and from thine ordinances;
Notice Daniel said "we", he didn't say, "THOSE OTHER GUYS". But I think this is beyond your level.
You said — Notice Daniel said “we”, he didn’t say, “THOSE OTHER GUYS”.
It’s the same “we” that Christians in this country utter in prayer to God, as we pray for our country and say — “We have sinned in condoning abortion and having abandoned all acknowledgment of you in the public square, devoting ourselves to other gods...” (and so on...).
It’s the “corporate we” — as a nation. That’s the prayer that Daniel was uttering. It’s the same type of prayer you’ll hear from Christians today — those very ones who do not condone abortion and who have not devoted themselves to other gods (and yet they say “we”).
It’s the same type of prayer as Abraham Lincoln gave to the nation for a “national prayer” in that “we” had accepted all the goodness and bounties of heaven and had ignored God (given to the public during the time of the Civil War).
BUT, we just keep coming back to this, in that God does judge nations and even when doing that, there are Godly people in those nations, just like there was in Israel’s time. Those Godly people will suffer under God’s judgment of the “corporate body” of that nation, because they are a part of that corporate body, just like Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego were (and thus, also suffered in being driven out of their homeland and taken captive and made to serve a foreign king).
You then said — “But I think this is beyond your level.”
On the other hand, there are some people that I’ve seen do very well to rise to the level of their incompetence... LOL...
AND, furthermore, you just seem to have a big problem with Christians not being “responsible” for the rise and fall of nations (including the United States) — which is under the control of God, Himself, and not under control of any individual or groups of individuals in those nations.
As always, it comes back to this...
Vote for candidates that promote God’s righteousness on earth (if you can find any) and do *not* vote for those who do *not* promote God’s righteousness on this earth. I would say that should be a Christian’s duty.
There is no responsibility on the Christian’s part for the rise or fall of his nation, other than simply doing his duty to God Almighty. Leave God’s business to God. God will take care of the nations.
I think Jindal also is a bright hope for the future. I was talking with some Christians from NO today and they love him. Lots can change with Godly men and women in government.
That’s true. But don’t we expect perfection? It ain’t gonna happen, no matter who gets in. M
Just today I was surprised by my not previously connecting abortion to the killing of the Hebrew babies in Egypt. Same thing different perpetrators. There the Pharaoh and now the Mothers and Planned Parenthood.
“There is nothing new under the sun.”
We are told we will be persecuted, experience suffering and tribulation. Jesus, the apostles, Paul, early Christians experienced much tribulation and suffering. Why do we believe it won't happen to us? God chastens those He loves.
You should read EPICENTER by Joel C. Rosenberg. I believe him to be the most geopolitically connected Christian prophecy watcher alive, and he deals with this exact topic. The Bible says that "in those days" people will have visions. Rosenberg tells of tons of people who are showing up at fledgling churches all across the Middle East, people who have never heard the gospel preached, saying that Christ has come to them in a vision and told them where to go. It'll send chills up and down the spine.
MM (in TX)
Try Daniel 2:21.
Sowing and reaping ... (that which you sow, you shall also reap. As you judge so shall you be judged: as you measure so shall it be measured to you). Paraphrase.
We are to be in a covenant relationship with Jesus. This had not been taught to me very well. The Lord's supper is a integral part of it. When covenant is studied precept upon precept it is a profound teaching. I believe we take it much too lightly. Mostly through failure to have grown in our study and learning God's Word.
I believe in miracles. God can do anything.
I did read “Epicenter”, Excellent book. I recommend it to all.
Did you also read “Dead Heat”? I started with “The Ezekiel Option”, followed by “The Copper Scroll” and “Dead Heat” is the end of the series. I have not gone back and read the first two, “The Last Jihad”, and “The Last Days” since I knew what happened.
All are great reading. Ripped from the pages of current events.. Filled with Scripture. I am enthusiastic about his books.
Yeah we do expect our elected officials to agree with us on everything. When they don’t.......lol
Same here, I started with EZEKIEL OPTION, as well. Some of the best Christian fiction out there for sure, especially if you’re a prophecy watcher. Do you subscribe to his Flash Traffic updates, blog, etc.?
Another of my favorites is Chuck Missler, a guy who often delves into the more esoteric areas of biblical research, prophecy, like smart weapons being mentioned in the Bible, the incredible math behind the structure of the Bible, etc. www.k-house.org is is his site and I heartily recommend his material. He has a ton of little “briefing packs” that are RealPlayer versions of presentations he has given live.
And yes, I agree: God can do anything. We are indeed linear and He indeed ain’t. Missler explains it this way: When you or I stand on a corner and watch a parade, we can see an overview of what’s to come and what has passed, but we can only access the details directly in front of us as the parade passes by. God sees that parade from a mile up, beginning, middle, end. I find this to be a pretty decent analogy to remind me that God is outside our spacetime domain.
MM
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