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What is your view on this Prophecy Tribulation Letter?
Five Doves ^ | Nov 6th, 2008 | Ron Reese

Posted on 11/16/2008 12:15:27 PM PST by TaraP

OCT. 29, 2008 THRU SEPT. 23, 2015--HAVE WE ENTERED THE FINAL 7 YEARS???!"

OCT. 29, 2008 THRU SEPT. 23, 2015?HAVE WE ENTERED THE FINAL 7 YEARS???!

Was Oct. 29, 2008, the first day of the Final 7 Years, or the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel?!!! I believe the evidence that I am about to present to you makes a VERY strong case for this to be the truth. Most of you believe that this could not be the case because there has been no Rapture yet, and no confirming of a 7-year peace treaty by the Antichrist.

I believe there was an event one week ago on Oct. 29, 2008, that thrust the world right smack dab into the Final 7 Years of human history, as we know it. Please be patient enough to read this entire letter because if what I am about to present to you is the truth, then all of our lives will never be the same again.

I would like to briefly introduce myself, although some of you will remember me. I have written a couple of letters to Five Doves a year ago, and a few in 2004, and in 2000-2001, and several in the late 1990’s. My ministry has consisted of graduating from a Bible Institute, pastoring 2 churches, being an evangelist on end-times prophecy and speaking in dozens of churches on this subject, and writing 36 different tracts on the 2nd Coming of Christ. We now have almost 10 million tracts in circulation.

I have had numerous conversations with Jim Bramlett and had dinner with him a couple of times at the International Bible Prophecy Conference in Tampa, Florida. I have attended numerous Bible Prophecy Conferences over the years, usually with my own display table to offer my tracts, bumper stickers, tapes, Rapture t-shirts, etc. Many of you know Bonnie Gaunt, who has written several fascinating books on the end times and the Bible Codes, and appeared on TV on the 700 Club. Bonnie and I hosted a summer-long crusade on the End Times in our home city a few years ago.

Despite all of the above, I do not consider myself to be the in-depth student of end time prophecy that some of you on Five Doves are. Like most of you, I have been wrong on different things pertaining to the last days before and will probably be wrong again in the future. I have been waiting anxiously for somebody on Five Doves to see what I saw take place one week ago on Oct. 29, 2008, but nobody has come forth with it yet. Ted Porter is the only one who has come close.

Like most of you, I have been thrilled and fascinated by the abundance of evidence pointing to 2008 thru 2015 as the Final 7 Years. It has been, and STILL IS, OVERWHELMING. The only two years in my 35 years of studying the end times that have come this close to creating this much evidence and excitement have been 1998 and 1988. Notice, all 3 years end in 8, the number of new beginnings.

The evidence for the autumn of 2015 being the 2nd Coming of Christ and the end of the Final 7 Years seems to be staggering. Some of you have given up for this year because we are now into November and past the Feast Days for 2008. I hope what I am about to present to you will renew your hope that 2008--2015 are indeed the Final 7 Years before Christ returns.

During my attendance at numerous Bible Prophecy Conferences, there has been one speaker who has earned the respect of most all attendees and been the most sought-after speaker, and the one who has the biggest crowds around his book table. It is not Jack Van Impe or Hal Lindsey. It is in-depth Bible Prophecy scholar J.R. Church, of Prophecy in the News, author of Prophecies in the Psalms and numerous other books on the end-times. J.R. has been consistent in his belief that the 70th week of Daniel has to be during a 7-year Sabbatical cycle. I have seen him get excited about the possible Rapture during 1987, 1994, 2001, and 2008 because these years were the beginning of 7-year Sabbatical cycles. With the autumn of 2008 thru the autumn of 2015 being another 7-year Sabbatical cycle, it seems the perfect time for the beginning of the 70th week of Daniel to begin, AND I BELIEVE IT HAS!!!

So much evidence has come forth this year concerning 2015, including the lunar and solar eclipses right before and right after Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015. Jesus told us there would be evidence of his 2nd Coming in the sun, moon, and stars. Do you believe Him??? According to Bonnie Gaunt’s “Jubilee Study” in her Aug. 10, 2006, letter on Five Doves, and several others, the autumn of 2015 begins not just a new Sabbatical year but also a JUBILEE YEAR!!! WOW!!! That only happens once every 50 years.

Ted Porter of Five Doves has been pointing to this same exact 7-year period of Oct. 29, 2008 thru Sept. 23, 2015, for being the the Final 7 Years for quite some time and has even written a booklet about it. I urge you to use the search engine on Five Doves and type in Ted Porter. He will give you much more information about this 7-year period that began last week than I can give you here. 7 X 7 = one Jubilee cycle. It seems extremely likely that God would give Israel one Jubilee cycle from the highly significant day of June 6-7, 1967, when they recaptured their holy city of Jerusalem. 7 X 7 X 360 days (a Jewish year) from that all-important day of June 6-7, 1967, takes you to Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, right to the day!!! Amazing!!! This should be the Final Day of the Final 7 Years, when Jesus returns at the Battle of Armageddon. Everything points to this being the case.

On Oct. 13, 2008, Ted Porter wrote to Five Doves an article entitled, “When is Jesus Returning? The Answer is 42!” In that article, Ted did an awesome job of telling us why the number 42 has been presented as the one number in the Bible that means the 2nd Coming of Christ. The re-capturing of Jerusalem on June 6-7, 1967, which most prophetic scholars believe started the final generation before the 2nd Coming of Christ, plus 42 JEWISH YEARS takes us to Oct. 29, 2008, which should be the first day of the Final 7 Years. I have just showed you TWO AMAZING CALCULATIONS THAT TAKE YOU TO THE FIRST DAY AND THE LAST DAY OF THE 7OTH WEEK OF DANIEL, THE FINAL 7 YEARS. It is my conviction that we entered this 70th Week of Daniel on Oct. 29, 2008.

On Oct. 27, 2008, Jerry Grenough wrote to Five Doves with the article entitled, “It All Fits for 2008 Rapture”. In that article he wrote, that Wednesday, Oct. 29, 2008, will be Day One of the Tribulation. Ted Porter and others have come up with the same calculations. Can it be just a coincidence that there are so many things pointing to this 2520-day period, this Sabbatical cycle, this Jubilee cycle, with everything seeming to conclude on Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, and therefore, starting on October 29, 2008??? Never in history has there been such a perfect fit for the Final 7 Years, not even close. Do you honestly think things can go on like this for another 50 years (2 complete Jubilee cycles? Do you even think things can continue for another Sabbatical cycle, or another 7 years? It appears highly unlikely.

We have what many considered a 7-year warning on 9/11/2001. We have the economies of the world falling apart and ready to plunge right into the economic doomsday that is presented in the Book of Revelation. We have the world poised on the brink of World War III. We have Iran and Israel poised to unleash weapons of mass destruction at each other, not to mention the U.S., Russia, China, and others. We have the likely Antichrist poised to become President of the world’s only superpower. Can anybody say, “THE STAGE IS NOW SET!!!”

Most of you are probably ready to agree with me that the stage is now set. Many of you will agree with all of the above evidence that Oct.29, 2008 thru Sept. 23, 2015, appears to be the perfect time frame for the Final 7 Years. But the vast majority of you reading this still have two HUGE problems with this time frame, which we entered on Oct. 29, 2008. #1, there has been no rapture yet and #2, there has been no confirming of a peace treaty with Israel by the Antichrist yet.

Several times I have preached a sermon entitled, “17 Scriptural Reasons for a Pre-Tribulation Rapture”. I have always believed the Rapture would precede the 7-year Tribulation. You may have noticed that in this letter I have called this 7-year period of Oct. 29, 2008 thru Feast of Atonement, Sept. 23, 2015, the Final 7 Years. After reading Sherry Vance’s article of last month and similar articles over the years, I have to admit that even though they probably do overlap, the Tribulation, the 70th Week of Daniel, and the Time of Jacob’s Trouble may not be the EXACT same time periods.

I have always believed and been taught in Bible School that the Tribulation would be 7 years, and the Great Tribulation would comprise the last 3 and one-half years of the 7-year Tribulation. I still believe the Book of Revelation teaches a 3 and one-half year Great Tribulation and that the 70th week of Daniel is 2520 days, or 7 Jewish years, long. The 2300 days mentioned in the book of Daniel has always been a mystery for Bible prophecy scholars. This 2300 days could very well be the shortened Tribulation period.

For those of us who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, this 2300-day theory would still give us several more months and several more options for the Rapture, if indeed the Great Tribulation and the 70th Week of Daniel concludes in the fall of 2015. Even though I will be writing follow-up letters with at least 2 possible dates for the Rapture during the next few months, one in 2008 and one in the first half of 2009, I am a firm believer that the Rapture will be the same day as the Sudden Destruction, and, therefore, may or may not be a day that we can calculate.

This takes us to the other obstacle for us already entering the Final 7 Years, which is the confirming of a 7-year peace treaty with Israel by the Antichrist. I was taught in Bible School, and have always believed this would be the event that actually began the 7-year Tribulation. The signing, or confirming, would be Day 1 of the 70th Week of Daniel. It is still my contention that Daniel 9:27 takes place (or should I say already took place) on Day 1 of the 70th Week of Daniel.

I believe there are 3 things that we need for Day 1 of the 70th Week of Daniel to take place. I used to believe the Rapture was the 4th piece of the puzzle. I no longer believe that because I believe we have entered the 70th Week of Daniel, as of Oct. 29, 2008, and no Rapture has taken place. I believe that will take place at the time of the Sudden Destruction, sometime in the next 7 months. The 3 things are 1. A potential Antichrist on the scene. 2. We need to be at the beginning of a 7-year Sabbatical cycle. 3. We need a confirming of the covenant with many by the potential Antichrist.

1. Because of the tremendous amount of letters about Barack Hussein Obama on Five Doves in the past few months, I will spare you in this letter all of the many reasons why I now believe this man will come to fulfill his role as the Antichrist in the very near future. Perhaps in another letter I will highlight a few of the reasons. More and more Christians every day are jumping on the bandwagon that this man, who is probably a Muslim, will fulfill his role as the Antichrist. Count me among them. So many Christians have this pre-conceived idea about the Antichrist, that they are totally closed to the idea that Obama could be the Antichrist.

I jumped off the Antichrist-must-come-from-Europe bandwagon a long time ago. Perry Stone, at a prophecy conference that I attended, was the first that I knew of who presented a case for the Antichrist coming from the other half of the Old Roman Empire, which comprises much of the Muslim Kingdom. It is difficult to imagine someone from Europe, with very little nuclear power, or someone from Jordan or Syria, actually controlling the whole world. However, a President of the United States, the world’s only superpower, with its vast nuclear power, who shows his true Muslim colors at the start of the 3 and one-half year Great Tribulation, that is a different story. Who is more likely to cut off your head if you do not take the Mark of the Beast, a European leader like Prince Charles, or a great leader in the Muslim world??? So, I believe we definitely have a potential Antichrist on the world scene in Obama.

2. October 29, 2009, seemed to be a perfect fit to be the first day of the 70th week of Daniel. As more and more evidence begin piling up for Obama being the Antichrist and more and more evidence pointed toward the Final Seven Years comprising the time period of Oct. 29, 2008?Sept. 23, 2015 (Feast of Atonement), I became increasingly puzzzled during the last several weeks as to how Obama could sign or confirm a 7-year peace treaty with Israel on Oct. 29, 2008, if he was not even going to be in power until January, 2009. I could not reconcile this dilemma.

I waited anxiously with all of you as we went through the Fall Feast Days of 2008, anticipating the Rapture. Like Ted Porter, Jerry Grenough, and others on Five Doves, after the Feast Days, I was still anticipating something REALLY BIG to happen on Oct 29, 2008!! Would it be the Rapture? Would it be the crash of the stock market? Would it be the unleashing of nuclear weapons? Would it be the signing of a Middle East peace treaty, that possibly Obama would confirm, or strengthen, after he was sworn in as President in January of 2009? Something just had to happen on this day, I reasoned. It was just such a perfect fit.

3. In 35 years of studying Bible Prophecy, I had never seen this much evidence pointing to one particular day to start the Final Seven Years. I went to bed on Oct. 29, 2008, thinking we could be off one day because of Jewish inclusive reckoning, or because of moon sightings in 2015. Still perplexed the next day, as I anxiously scanned the newspaper for some secret signing of a Middle East peace agreement, I went to Five Doves looking for insight on the previous day’s events, which again was Oct. 29, 2008. I began scanning the titles of the letters that appeared in Five Doves on Oct. 30. When I read the title of Lewis Brackett’s letter entitled, “Obama’s Covenant with Many”, it hit me like a bolt of lightning. My spirit was electrified, as I heard the words come to me out of nowhere, “IT HAS HAPPENED!!!”

The first opportunity I had I got out my Strong’s Concordance and did a word study on Daniel 9:27, which says, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week” What we, as Bible students have always been taught, is the Antichrist will sign, or strengthen, a 7-year peace treaty with Israel and several other countries. This is another of our pre-conceived ideas, that I now believe has proven to be false. It is a theory that has been derived from an overall study of Bible prophecy. There is certainly no Scripture that says the Antichrist will sign, or confirm, a 7-year peace treaty with Israel and several other nations.

When Jesus came the first time, very, very few recognized Jesus as the Messiah. It was because of their pre-conceived ideas, from misinterpreting Scriptures, that they got it wrong. Do not let your pre-conceived ideas about the Antichrist and a 7-year peace treaty with Israel, and a Rapture before the Final 7 Years begins, keep you from seeing what has just taken place. ANTICHRIST HAS CONFIRMED THE COVENANT AND THE FINAL 7 YEARS, OR THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL HAS BEGUN!!! We can know it has begun because of what has taken place on Oct. 29, 2008!!!

Here is what my word study in the Hebrew has revealed to me. Of all the words in that verse, the word “covenant” was the hardest to gain insight on. There was nothing about a peace agreement, nothing about a treaty. In fact, in the Hebrew, there was nothing even anything remotely suggesting that “the covenant” was any type of peace agreement, or a treaty of any kind. Study it for yourself. Covenant means to come together, to be of one mind, and promises. The Hebrew for “week” does mean seven years. There is nothing in the Hebrew to suggest the word “many” would involve a peace treaty with a handful of Middle East countries, as we have been let to believe. Instead, the Hebrew word “many”, indicates an abundant number, ten thousands, or millions, a HUGE number, or a multitude. The Hebrew meaning of “confirm’ would indicate to strengthen, to put more strength to, to prevail, to exceed, to be great, to be mighty.

I do believe the “he” in Daniel 9:27, does represent the Antichrist, who comes in Daniel 7:25 “to CHANGE TIMES AND LAWS”. Based on the word study on Daniel 9:27, which says, “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week”, here is what I believed happened on October 29, 2008:

Barack Hussein Obama put himself on nationwide TV, on 7 major TV networks, and in front of over 33 million people, confirmed, or strengthened, or re-affirmed, or summarized his platform, his promises, to be of one mind and to all come together, or his COVENANT with the people. He strengthened his covenant (his promises). The intention of his covenant, or his promises, was not only TO STRENGTHEN, but also to PREVAIL on Election Day, to EXCEED during his presidency, TO BE GREAT, and TO BE MIGHTY. The title of his message was, “A Closing Argument to the Everyman”. I would say that Everyman would sure include a whole lot of people. Besides the 33 million that watched his speech on Oct. 29 on TV, millions more saw it later on news broadcasts and on the Internet. Certainly, the “many” involved an abundant number, a huge number, a multitude, yes, millions upon millions of people, not just a handful of countries that we have come to expect the “many” to represent.

During this speech, Obama said he was going to change the country and CHANGE THE WORLD!!! His main platform has been to “PREPARE FOR CHANGE”. Daniel 7:25 says the Antichrist is coming to CHANGE times and laws. The “confirming of the covenant with many for ONE WEEK”, simply was put in Scripture so we could identify the 70TH WEEK of Daniel. In other words, God is allowing us to identify the Antichrist and the first day of the 70th WEEK of Daniel at the same time. I BELIEVE GOD IS SAYING THAT WHEN YOU SEE A PRIME CANDIDATE FOR THE ANTICHRIST CONFIRMING A COVENANT (OR PROMISES) IN FRONT OF MANY (MILLIONS AND MILLIONS) ON THE VERY SAME DAY THAT CALCULATES OUT TO BE THE VERY FIRST DAY OF THE FINAL 7 YEARS, KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ENTERED THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL.

WHEN WE SEE AN OUTSTANDING CANDIDATE TO BE THE ANTICHRIST STRENGTEN OR CONFIRM HIS COVENANT OR PROMISES IN FRONT OF MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ON THE EXACT DAY THAT EVERYTHING POINTED TO BE THE FIRST DAY OF THE 70TH WEEK OF DANIEL, WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO THINK???? That it was all just coincidence??? A word study of Daniel 9:27 in the Hebrew tells us that WHAT TOOK PLACE WITH OBAMA ON 0CT. 29, 2008, WAS, INDEED THE FULFILLMENT OF DANIEL 9:27.

There is nothing at all in the Hebrew language that would even remotely suggest that this verse was talking about a peace treaty with Israel and a handful of other nations. Apparently, it really has nothing to do with a 7-year peace treaty with Israel. That is not to say that a peace treaty or agreement with Israel is not coming in the near future, but based on all the evidence in this letter, it will not be a fulfillment of Daniel 9:27.

I strongly encourage you not to reject the message of this letter because of pre-conceived ideas of how end-times prophecy must play itself out. Please re-read this letter when you have time and remember to pray first that the Lord would show you if the message in this letter is true or whether it is false. Nobody, especially me, wants to be a part of deceiving anybody. I pray that you will let this letter change your life. Let it give you a new sense of urgency like you have never had before, to accomplish what the Lord wants you to do in these VERY, VERY LAST DAYS that we are now living in. That is my prayer for myself and for all of you.

I leave you with my favorite verses, Luke 21:34-36, “And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting (partying), and drunkenness, and CARES OF THIS LIFE, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man (Jesus).”


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Religion & Politics; Theology
KEYWORDS: antichrist; obama
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1 posted on 11/16/2008 12:15:27 PM PST by TaraP
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To: TaraP

C’mon, I’ll buy you a rum and we can talk about it.


2 posted on 11/16/2008 12:18:24 PM PST by BlueStateBlues (Blue State for business, Red State at heart..)
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To: TaraP

“The Answer is 42!”

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8


3 posted on 11/16/2008 12:21:05 PM PST by Excellence ("There is no such thing as multi-culturalism in Saudi Arabia." Mark Steyn)
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To: TaraP
Does this involve going up a mountain or in a cave 7 years from now and waiting with no food?

I'm getting to the age where I can't wait for 7 years. How about two years with some options?

I am impressed by Daniel's and the others knowledge of what the Romans and the church would eventually do with the calendar, so that they could predict the actual day something would occur.

4 posted on 11/16/2008 12:24:28 PM PST by nufsed
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To: TaraP

I don’t think there is any Biblical promise of a pre-tribulation rapture. You need to throughly investigate the timing of the rapture so that you can predict well.

As with all of God’s servants before our time, he saves through times of trouble and not FROM times of trouble.

Noah being one. Alot of the church today gets caught up on this pre-trib. rapture and it really throws things off.

From a Biblical perspective, there will be no pre-tribulation rapture.


5 posted on 11/16/2008 12:29:29 PM PST by rlferny
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To: nufsed

Isn’t the religion site the proper location for these posts?
While I am not an end times believer, I subscribe to the opinion that Revelation was more about Nero than the end times, what i can remember from my Catholic School days is that it will come like a thief in the night and I should live my life in preparation because there is absolutely nothing I can do to predict or prevent its occurrence.


6 posted on 11/16/2008 12:32:32 PM PST by xkaydet65
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To: TaraP

Endless Bible prophecy interpretations is one thing, but the the Rapture crowd is really annoying.

Why don’t they just go away already?


7 posted on 11/16/2008 12:33:44 PM PST by romanesq
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To: xkaydet65

I don’t know where things should be posted. I have seen so many of these in my lifetime, I live my life the best I can and let God work his plan. He didn’t mention any dates to me.


8 posted on 11/16/2008 12:36:10 PM PST by nufsed
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To: TaraP

Fascinating.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


9 posted on 11/16/2008 12:39:03 PM PST by verity ("Lord, what fools we mortals be!")
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To: TaraP

Are we living in the endtimes...

Yes, we could possible be right now...

How long are the endtimes ???

Will Obama’s administration usher in a need for a mark on a hand or forehead in order to buy food or get a job ???

We now have the technology...

When I was 15, I thought that I would be long dead as an old woman in my grave when Jesus returned...

Over the years, I have changed my mind...

Now, at 60, I believe Jesus will return in my lifetime...

The stage is set....


10 posted on 11/16/2008 12:41:41 PM PST by Tennessee Nana
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To: TaraP

Damascus will be leveled before the tribulation.

Keep watching the middle east.


11 posted on 11/16/2008 12:50:09 PM PST by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: TaraP
Author needs to get out more.

And hire a web designer. Euuuu.

12 posted on 11/16/2008 12:58:50 PM PST by Lee N. Field (a dispensational exegesis not supported by an a-, post- or historic pre-mil scholar will be ignored.)
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To: Lee N. Field
The 7 years of the tribulation commences with the signing of the peace treat with many and Israel.

That has not happened.

We are not in the Great Tribulation.

yet

13 posted on 11/16/2008 1:04:08 PM PST by JaneNC (I)
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To: TaraP

It’s too long.


14 posted on 11/16/2008 1:13:41 PM PST by Busywhiskers ("Shave off the whiskers of unnecessary thought." Occams Razor)
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To: TaraP

This is insane.


15 posted on 11/16/2008 1:32:57 PM PST by RebelViking
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To: Lee N. Field

Wow. Saving site to web design teacher. He always gets a kick out of these (or I do atleast).


16 posted on 11/16/2008 1:36:22 PM PST by Toki ("Palin Pingers" Freepmail Liberity Rocks or me to get on the list today!)
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To: romanesq

We will.


17 posted on 11/16/2008 1:40:52 PM PST by beethovenfan (If Islam is the solution, the "problem" must be freedom.)
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To: TaraP
The evidence for the autumn of 2015 being the 2nd Coming of Christ and the end of the Final 7 Years seems to be staggering.


18 posted on 11/16/2008 2:57:45 PM PST by Alex Murphy ( "Every country has the government it deserves" - Joseph Marie de Maistre)
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To: beethovenfan

Good luck with that. But I don’t know if Mohammed has any more room on his horsey.

And there is no such thing as a rapture. It’s a scam dreamed up by backwards uneducated “ministers” or worse. They are probably led by the horned one.

There is no rapture in the Bible. Sorry to burst your bubble.


19 posted on 11/16/2008 2:59:13 PM PST by romanesq
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To: JaneNC

When Syria and the PLO sign jointly that will smell like trouble.
As the grandfather said, when there is all talk of peace, prepare for war.


20 posted on 11/16/2008 3:00:12 PM PST by romanesq
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To: TaraP

I think you need to back and study some more....make that a lot more!


21 posted on 11/16/2008 3:00:58 PM PST by count-your-change (You don't have be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: JaneNC

Exactly right, JaneNC...

I have studied Biblical prophecy since the age of 17... I’m now 47.

We are NOT seeing the beginning of the 70 weeks spoken about in the book of Daniel... known as the seven year tribulation.

1. The removal of Christ’s Church and Bride (believers) must take place first. Yes, there is a rapture.

2. Before the seven year tribulation begins, He comes FOR His Church, and after this seven year period ends, He comes WITH His Church to reign for a thousand years on the earth.

1. At the Rapture, believers meet the Lord in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17). At the Second Coming, (Called the “Second Coming” because it is Christ’s second descent to the earth) believers return with the Lord to the earth (Revelation 19:14).

2. The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). The Second Coming will be visible to all (Revelation 1:7; Matthew 24:29-30).

When the Antichrist is revealed, the seven year tribulation begins... no, Obama is NOT the Antichrist.

What we are witnessing now, is the “new world order” emerging... with America losing her position (being dismantled by liberal and socialistic means.) as the world’s leading superpower... Europe will soon be next to hold that position.

Out of which, a Revived Roman Empire will be reborn, and out of which the Antichrist arises.


22 posted on 11/16/2008 3:01:36 PM PST by Southnsoul
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To: Alex Murphy

Hey! I lost that picture when my laptop died. I’m stealing that back!


23 posted on 11/16/2008 3:02:02 PM PST by jude24
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To: TaraP

Beware of the date setters!


24 posted on 11/16/2008 3:17:09 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: TaraP
Christ said *TIME* was shortened... for the elects sake...

The end is described as a woman in travail.... labor pains all things will happen but at a quick pace.

25 posted on 11/16/2008 3:20:17 PM PST by Just mythoughts (Isa.3:4 And I will give children to be their princes, and babes shall rule over them.)
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To: rlferny

I wish you’d talk to my father,

I can’t get that through his thick head.

For myself, I know that if I pinch my arm and it still hurts, Jesus has *not* returned yet.

A simple but concrete ‘test’.


26 posted on 11/16/2008 3:30:46 PM PST by Salamander (Welcome to Obamageddon! The best apocalypse foreign money can buy!)
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To: romanesq; TaraP
"...but the the Rapture crowd is really annoying.
Why don’t they just go away already?"

WE will, will you be with us?

27 posted on 11/16/2008 3:31:38 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: JaneNC
"The 7 years of the tribulation commences with the signing of the peace treat with many and Israel. That has not happened."

I suspect that it will happen right after the soon-to-be attack on Iran's nuke sites. Their existence is the big impediment to the agreement.

28 posted on 11/16/2008 3:39:27 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: TaraP

I think these are good threads to run. I grew up some in the Bible Belt and it was cool seeing all of the Bible Prophecy experts. It’s always a fascinating subject. It’s good to be kept up to date on what the latest thinking, even if we are unsure of what they are telling us.


29 posted on 11/16/2008 3:43:56 PM PST by RGPII (Stand your ground!)
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To: editor-surveyor

“WE will, will you be with us?”

Nope I refuse to join anyone on a horse especially if his name is Mohammed.
Maybe you can find a chapter on the subject with your word rapture in one of his fabrications.

It’s as bad as the stuff some folks are feeding with this rapture lunacy that doesn’t exist in any Bible I know of but certainly helps a lot of “ministers” when the collection plate goes round.

Sorry that so many have bought into this fallacy, both figuratively and literally.

It’s a SCAM!


30 posted on 11/16/2008 3:46:32 PM PST by romanesq
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To: romanesq; beethovenfan
"There is no rapture in the Bible. Sorry to burst your bubble."

Very, very foolish statement.

None of the events described in Rev 4-22, in addition to those described in many OT prophecies, can occur while the Holy Spirit is still ministering here.

31 posted on 11/16/2008 3:48:10 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: romanesq
"It’s a SCAM!"

There's a scam alright, and it's being perpetrated by the "no rapture" people.

32 posted on 11/16/2008 3:51:12 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Obama - not just an empty suit - - A Suit Bomb invading the White House)
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To: editor-surveyor

“None of the events described in Rev 4-22, in addition to those described in many OT prophecies, can occur while the Holy Spirit is still ministering here.”

Very, very ignorant statement.

Hardly a logical or coherent to suggest the Bible including Rev 4-22 means that you are going to fly away on a magic horsey with Mohammed or another UFO type journey.

But then again, there were those people that thought wearing certain sneakers and ODing on drugs would lead to their “flying away” to the great mothership in the sky.

It’s true I tell ya, it’s all true.


33 posted on 11/16/2008 3:51:47 PM PST by romanesq
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To: TaraP
Since you asked an honest question, I'll give you an honest answer.

What is your view on this Prophecy Tribulation Letter?

Garbage.

34 posted on 11/16/2008 3:58:14 PM PST by PAR35
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To: Lee N. Field
And hire a web designer. Euuuu.

With all those rainbow colors - - is that a gay site?

35 posted on 11/16/2008 4:01:58 PM PST by PAR35
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To: TaraP

Bookmark. Just in case.


36 posted on 11/16/2008 4:30:43 PM PST by REDWOOD99
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To: Southnsoul
I have studied Biblical prophecy since the age of 17... I’m now 47.

Ever read anyone who wasn't a dispensationalist? Just wondering.

The Rapture will be “secret” and instant

Accompanied by the voice of the archangel, and the trumpet of God, which cannot be heard by anybody but Christians.

37 posted on 11/16/2008 4:44:34 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("I've studied bible prophecy 30 years." usually means "I've never hear of Geerhardus Vos.")
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To: TaraP

.


38 posted on 11/16/2008 6:41:42 PM PST by cgk (I don't see myself as a conservative. I see myself as a religious, right-wing, wacko extremist.)
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To: Southnsoul

I suspect the more conventional dispensational interpretations of the pretrib, premil position assert the Great Tribulation coincides with the final week of the 70 weeks. That final week commencing with the signing of a covenant between Israel and the AntiChrist. The revealing of the AntiChrist occurs at the middle of the 70th week, 3-1/2 weeks into the Great Tribulation when the AntiChrist performs the abomination of desolation.

One plausible mechanism/interpretation of the Rapture is coincident with the removal of the Church immediately prior to the Great Tribulation.


39 posted on 11/16/2008 6:58:11 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: TaraP

IMHO, the Gog/Magog War precedes the Great Tribulation. If this is the case, then there is about a 7 to 7-1/2 yr period in which the remnants of the war are cleaned up from the land prior to the Great Tribulation. Since Israel won’t have much time in the Great Tribulation to perform the cleaning described in Ezekiel 38/39, I suspect we are at least 15 years out from the 2ndComing.

I suspect also that we are beginning to see efforts to consolidate the new world order into the 10 horns.


40 posted on 11/16/2008 7:01:56 PM PST by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: TaraP

How do you explain that song that goes -

“In the year 2525...”


41 posted on 11/16/2008 7:06:18 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Southnsoul
2. The Rapture will be “secret” and instant (1 Corinthians 15:50-54).

Where in scripture do you read that Christ returns in secret? That passage in 1 Corinithians is a description of Christ's 2nd coming.

You posted scripture that says there is no secret about his 2nd coming:

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The 2nd coming of Christ will be the most visible event there is. There is no secret 2nd coming and a 3rd visible coming. At least not in scripture.

42 posted on 11/16/2008 7:13:21 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: TaraP

I have a book that “proves” we were in the final week of Daniel’s prophecy when it was written thirty years ago.

Plus the end time in 1984, then 1988, then 1989.


43 posted on 11/16/2008 11:01:18 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: TaraP
What is your view on this Prophecy Tribulation Letter?

Crazy talk. If there were to be an anti-Christ, he would appear in the Church, not the White House.

44 posted on 11/17/2008 2:36:34 AM PST by DaveMSmith (If you know these things, you are blessed if you act upon them. John 13:17)
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To: Grizzled Bear

God didn’t write it?


45 posted on 11/17/2008 2:38:08 AM PST by John W (Voters were more afraid of losing their money than losing their souls.)
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To: TaraP; Lee N. Field
International Bible Prophecy Conference in Tampa, Florida. I have attended numerous Bible Prophecy Conferences over the years, usually with my own display table to offer my tracts, bumper stickers, tapes, Rapture t-shirts, etc.

Anyone who hangs out a prophecy conferences selling t-shirts is a prima facie phony.

Prophecy conferences are all about marketing the rapture, not the truth.

to accomplish what the Lord wants you to do in these VERY, VERY LAST DAYS that we are now living in.

So now we are in the "very, very, last days", as opposed to the "very last days" of Jack Van Impe or the "last days" of Hal Lindsey. I guess that makes it official.

I just love it when one futurist crank takes another futurist crank to task when they speculations are at odds (as they often are since they have little reference to the Bible).

46 posted on 11/17/2008 6:35:22 AM PST by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: topcat54

John Hagee and Dr Charles Stanley also speak of the rapture as well as Messianic Pastors....

Perry Stone as well.


47 posted on 11/17/2008 6:45:51 AM PST by TaraP (A Big Black Horse and a Cherry Tree)
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To: rlferny
From a Biblical perspective, there will be no pre-tribulation rapture.

Right on!

48 posted on 11/17/2008 7:15:46 AM PST by Truth Defender (History teaches, if we but listen to it; but no one really listens!)
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To: TaraP
John Hagee and Dr Charles Stanley also speak of the rapture as well as Messianic Pastors....

Hagee is wrong on so many things that it is difficult to separate truth from error when he speaks. E.g., his claim that Jesus was not the Messiah of Israel.

On the subject of the end times, Stanley (like many Southern Baptists) appears to just be regurgitating the pop pre-trib stuff that is floating around the ether.

Most messianic types have their own problems interpreting the Bible. The rapture theory is just one in a whole set of issues.

Perry Stone as well.

I’ve seen this annoying character on TBN. Again, like most pop futurists he is just regurgitating stuff that has been circulating for decades. Wake me up when anything he says comes to pass.

And so we find the "rapture ready" crowd consuming without question all the putrid, mind-numbing stuff that comes from the "prophecy preachers". They never stop to ask, "where is this all getting us? How is this advancing the work of the great commission?"

49 posted on 11/17/2008 7:21:38 AM PST by topcat54 ("The selling of bad beer is a crime against Christian love.")
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To: TaraP

Sometime when I between the ages of 7-11 there was a “prophesy” that the world was going to end on March 6th, I think. Forgive me, it has been many years.

Obviously, it didn’t happen but the reason I remember it was that it stressed me out when I first heard it and made me sick to my stomach but I was a kid and soon forgot about it.

Then I came home from school one day and was playing with matches, I managed to get some dry grass on fire and then I couldn’t get it out! And then I remembered that the world was going to end and then I realized that the world was going to end that very day! And that I had started the fire that was going to destroy it all! ...and I was still more frightened of my mother than of God.

Vanity, it is all vanity. God is in control and we can only wait and wonder and follow the Lord so that when He does come we will be ready because even if the world doesn’t end soon, your life will, someday.


50 posted on 11/17/2008 7:22:18 AM PST by tiki (True Christians will not deliberately slander or misrepresent others or their beliefs)
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