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To: topcat54

1 Thessalonians 5:2-4 (NIV) for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. 4 But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

The Scripture does not state in 1 Thessalonians 5:2 referenced above that Jesus will return in the night, anymore than it states in 1 Thessalonians 5:4 referenced above that Jesus will return in the day. There is concurrently daytime and nighttime somewhere on the earth. The Scripture states that Jesus’ Second Coming will be an unexpected and sudden “surprise,” “like a thief” is a surprise.

Isaiah 29:5-6 (NIV) But your many enemies will become like fine dust, the ruthless hordes like blown chaff. Suddenly, in an instant, 6 the LORD Almighty will come with thunder and earthquake and great noise, with windstorm and tempest and flames of a devouring fire.

Malachi 3:1 (NIV) “See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come,” says the LORD Almighty.

Matthew 24:43-44 (NIV) But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

Luke 12:39-40 (NIV) But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he would not have let his house be broken into. You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”

SINCE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DO NOT BELIEVE IN CHRIST AND THE JEWS DO NOT AS WELL..
How would any of this make sense to them? Coming like a Thief in the Night...That is for the Believer.

The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54. 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 describes the rapture as God resurrecting all believers who have died, giving them glorified bodies, and then departing the earth with those believers who were still alive, who have also been given glorified bodies. “For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever” (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17).


58 posted on 01/26/2009 2:18:27 PM PST by TaraP (The RAPTURE: Separation of Church and State)
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To: TaraP; Lee N. Field
The rapture is described primarily in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:50-54.

I’m sorry. I can plainly see the Second Coming in those passages, but not any futurist rapture distinct from the Second Coming. Do I need to drink more kool aid?

20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. (1 Cor. 15)
Note the saints are raised at Christ’s coming (not rapture). There is no time between Christ’s coming for His saints and “the end”, the consummation of the kingdom, according to this passage. Or have the futurists invented yet another gap?
62 posted on 01/26/2009 2:26:10 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: TaraP; topcat54
Coming like a Thief in the Night...That is for the Believer.

O.K., because I just can't stand to hear this any longer, I'm going to give a quick history lesson.

This is Asia Minor.


Prior to the 6th Century Persian conquest, the greatest kingdom of Asia Minor was the Kingdom of Lydia under King Croesus.


The greatest city of this great kingdom was Sardis. Yes, the same Sardis addressed in Revelation 3 (remember that, it's important). Sardis was called the Impenetrable City, because of it's precarious location. Sardis was a two level city, with it's upper city situated on a 1500 foot high hill with cliffs on three sides, and a single rocky incline to it's gates. There was only one avenue of approach that an enemy could take to attempt to capture the city, and a hard one to take.

A couple views of Sardis



This is the account of the Fall of Sardis:
The Persian emperor, Cyrus, sought to capture Sardis and promised a reward to the first man to discover a way to scale the wall. One day, Hyeroedes, a soldier in Cyrus’ army, spotted a Lydian soldier who accidentally dropped his helmet over the fortification and down the slope. He observed the sentinel’s descent from the fortress to retrieve the fallen helmet and the ease of his ascent. Hyeroedes made a mental note of the route. Subsequently, a platoon of Persian soldiers followed him into the fortress at night-fall via the sentinel’s route and the city was easily seized. Careful observation exposed a pathway across a significant barrier that resulted in victory.
Though likely embellished (as modern historians assert), this is the popular story of the Fall of Sardis. One thing is clear, though, Cyrus' capture of Sardis (as well as the capture of Sardis three centuries later by the Greeks) is a lesson in observation. Because of the city's lack of vigilance, Sardis was captured by "a thief in the night." The thief brought destruction. Throughout ancient Asia Minor, this was the understanding of the thief in the night.

Now to Scripture:
Rev. 3:1b-3 "Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you."
From the letter to the Church at Sardis: Wake up, or you will be destroyed when you least expect it.
I Thes. 5:2-4 "For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;"
From the Letter to the Church in Thessalonica (The greatest port city of Ancient Asia Minor, assuredly familiar with the tale of the Fall of Sardis). You know that the Day of the Lord will bring destruction when least expected (reiterated by the labor pains illustration). But, you are fine, you won't be destroyed because you are not in darkness like they are. See vv.5-7, the same illustration is used by Paul as used by John in Revelation. Those that are overcome by the theif are asleep.
2 Peter 3:10-12 "But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!"
From Peter's second Letter to the believers "scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia." (that is: Asia Minor). The Day of the Lord will be bring some pretty awesome destruction when it's least expected.

Now, back to your original statement: Coming like a Thief in the Night...That is for the Believer UNBELIEVER. There, fixed it.
84 posted on 01/26/2009 5:42:12 PM PST by raynearhood ("I consider looseness with words no less of a defect than looseness of the bowels" -John Calvin)
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