Posted on 02/27/2009 12:24:55 PM PST by delacoert
An atheist is one who doesn’t care whether Bill or Roman wins, or whether or not Bill gets the Injun Casino. Furthermore, the LDS have spent a great deal of money, time, and effort trying to go mainstream Christian and they do run a one heck of great ski resort system at Alta, Deer Valley, and dear old Park City.
<p.Therefore, it is my considered theological judgement that they be accepted as Christians (Probationary Grade) until I and Pope Benedict sort it out.
Very good answer.
I don't agree with the entirety of that statement. Slavation is offered to me because of my Faith which is renewed daily by God's Grace. Because of original sin, I am incapable of "accepting" it to my own salvific benefit. That matters not to God who, like He did to Abraham, makes me righteous because of Christ.
As regards associating with a Church, I understand that I insult God and overtly reject His love for me if I am not part of the Body of Christ which is found in His church where the Word is rightly preached and the Sacraments are ritely administered; The Third Commandment.
Hmmm, Mitt is addressing the CPAC tonight... time to fight back, eh?
What will the “morning after” offering be?
This is getting so predictable here on FR.
Lemme know before the religious wars start.
I disagree with your take on this because while Mormonism implies a worldview, it’s a worldview that’s compatible with political conservatism. A Mormon can support, for instance, small government, strong national defense, and pro-life policies without violating his religion (as far as I know). That’s a candidate I would support, and to heck with where he goes to church. Your approach troubles me because you would seemingly discard many candidates whose policies you actually agree with, thereby fragmenting whatever’s left of the conservative coalition on grounds that are politically extraneous. That’s the mark of a party that’s going to keep losing.
For Mormons it is all about “The Church”, not Christ.
When I was 17 a college professor (the same one that later cautioned me against “thinking myself out of The Church”) invited me to General Conference. Afterwards I had dinner with his family. We went for a walk and as we were coming back he placed both hands to his chest, looked up at the sky and said “The Church is my life!”. I wanted that, I really did.
And I had it, a year later, right after my 18th birthday, I joined the LDS Church. And it was my life for several years. By all accounts I was a good mormon, but I wasn’t a Christian.
After I became a Christian, I found out what being a true Christian was. No “church” is my life.
Christ is my life!
This damn thread is devisive and should be yanked.
So, do you believe he should throw aside his own personal religious convictions for the good of the “party?”
Is it so uncomfortable to you that he (and I) hold such a non-politically-correct view of Mormonism (that we cannot by our own conscience vote for one as POTUS), that you would squelch our opinion or our right to vote our conscience?
Unlike skin color, our beliefs are self-actualized. What someone believes goes to the very nature of who they are. Now tell me again, you think we should vote for a man that thinks he will one day be a god of worlds of his own creation - - and that he thinks he “earned” it. I do not!
Is the Cult of Joey Smith of the Latter day Swindlers a Christian Church ???
NO
Is mormonism the same as Christianity
NO
Are mormons Christians
NO
Let’s hear from the mormon leaders who say mormons are not Christians...
What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world” - (Founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270)
“...all the priests who adhere to the sectarian religions of the day with all their followers, without one exception, receive their portion with the devil and his angels.” - (The Elders Journal, Joseph Smith, Jr., editor, vol.1, no.4, p.60)
“The old Catholic church traditions are worth more than all you have said. Here is a principle of logic that most men have no more sense than to adopt. I will illustrate it by an old apple tree. Here jumps off a branch and says, I am the true tree, and you are corrupt. If the whole tree is corrupt, are not its branches corrupt? If the Catholic religion is a false religion, how can any true religion come out of it? If the Catholic church is bad, how can any good thing come out of it? The character of the old churches have always been slandered by all apostates since the world began.” - (Founder of Mormonism Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843-44, p. 375)
“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.” -Journal of Discourses 6:176
“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God” - Journal of Discourses 8:171
“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness.” - Journal of Discourses 5:73
“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.” - Journal of Discourses 8:199
“And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this (Mormon) church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth...” - D&C 1:30
“What! Are Christians ignorant? Yes, as ignorant of the things of God as the brute best.” - (Mormon Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225)
“What does the Christian world know about God? Nothing... Why so far as the things of God are concerned, they are the veriest fools; they know neither God nor the things of God.” - (Mormon Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses 13:225)
“Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom.” - (Mormon Prophet John Taylor, Journal of Discourses, 10:127)
“Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness.” (Mormon Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p. 266)
“For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the ‘Christian’ churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men.” - (Mormon Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282)
“The Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called” - (Mormon Prophet Wilford Woodruff, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 196)
“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent” - (Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 255)
“Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.” - (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167)
“Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born. ...You may get a Methodist priest to pour water on you, or sprinkle it on you, and baptize you face foremost, or lay you down the other way, and whatever mode you please, and you will be damned with your priest. - (Mormon Apostle Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, 5:89)
“Though Mahometan institutions are corrupt enough, and need reforming by the Gospel, I am inclined to think, upon the whole, leaving out the corruptions of men in high places among them, that they have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations; and in many localities there have been high standards of morals. So far as that one point is concerned, of worshipping the one true God under the name of Mahometanism, together with many moral precepts, and in war only acting on the defensive, I think they have exceeded in righteousness and truthfulness of religion, the idolatrous and corrupt church that has borne the name of Christianity.” - (Mormon Apostle Parley P. Pratt, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p.41)
“When you went through a Christian minister was portrayed as a hireling of Satan, not a pope or padre but a Christian minister.” [Temple ceremony]
“This is not just another Church. This is not just one of a family of Christian churches. This is the Church and kingdom of God, the only true Church upon the face of the earth...” - (Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p.164-165)
“...virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ...” - (Mormon Apostle Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, “False Christs,” page 269)
“In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ.’ ‘No, I don’t. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages.’” - (Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, LDS Church News, June 20, 1998, p.7)
“The Lord said that this is the only true and living church upon the face of the earth with which He is well pleased [see D&C 1:30]. I didn’t say that. Those are His words. The Prophet Joseph was told that the other sects were wrong [see Joseph Smith—History 1:19]. Those are not my words. Those are the Lord’s words.” - (Mormon Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley, Ensign, (June 2004), p. 3)
Amen. After my belief in Mormonism dwindled and died a long slow and painful death, I searched and searched for an organization that would take its place.
It took me twenty years to discover that no church, no political party and no organization on this earth could possibly compete with Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for me.
What had I done to deserve it. NOT ONE THING!
It is true that Mormons may work for some of the same political goals that conservatives work for. And that’s fine if someone (whomever it is...) wants to support conservative goals. I’m not going to tell them that they can’t support a conservative bill or whatever.
As an individual, that person can support whatever particular conservative bill or law or whatever they want to. I’ll do the same on my end. When it comes to me supporting a worldview of Mormonism, as a candidate that I vote for — no, I’ll never vote for any candidate that does not support (i.e., adhere to) the basic, historic and foundational teachings of Christianity. It will never happen with me. And..., I don’t prevent that “conservative” person from supporting whatever measure or bill.., that’s fine.
And, I don’t think you’ll find a large segment of the Christians, who do adhere very strongly to these teachings and doctrines who will support a cult group member for a candidate. There may be some, but it won’t be a large segment.
That’s part of my Christian worldview.
And..., what do you think is going to happen, when Jesus Christ sets up His world-wide Kingdom on earth, which is based on Christianity, and rules over all the nations, on this earth, on that basis? It will be the elimination of all other cult groups and religions in the world, at that time. I’m sure some people might object to that, too... :-) But, that is what will happen.
I don’t have that mandate to do that now, on my own (Jesus Christ will do that, when He sets up His government, here), but I do have a mandate to only support a Christian and not to support *anything* that has to do with a worldview that is totally opposed to Christianity (like any other cult group).
Amen. After my belief in Mormonism dwindled and died a long slow and painful death, I searched and searched for an organization that would take its place.
It took me twenty years to discover that no church, no political party and no organization on this earth could possibly compete with Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for me.
What had I done to deserve it. NOT ONE THING!
It is a hard mindset to get out of isn’t it. We frail humans want to believe we are part of something special and we usually look to organizations to fill that need.
Yet, if we are in Christ, we are special, his sacrifice alone makes us Children of God, no organization can do that.
Haven’t you figured it out? FR is intended as a gathering place for all conservatives except Mormon conservatives. When it comes to Mormons, divisiveness is the point.
I’m not questioning your right to vote on any basis you want, but I am questioning your practicality. As I said before, I’m not Mitt Romney’s biggest fan, but I think he would have been tolerably conservative and a stronger candidate (especially in light of the economic crisis) than John McCain. Largely because so many conservatives wouldn’t vote for a Mormon, we got stuck with McCain, and now we’re stuck with Obama. This “god of worlds” business isn’t really hurting me, but the likely coming of the socialist utopia sure will.
Personally I don’t begrudge, nor dare judge, anyone’s religeous beliefs.
Its none of my business, and our nation was founded on the concept of religeous freedom.
I simply don’t care if you wear a coffee filter for headgear on Saturdays, handle snakes in a tent on Wednesday nights, or kneel five times a day facing Mecca.
As long as you aren’t trying to kill me because I don’t believe as you, we don’t have a problem at all.
when Jesus Christ sets up His world-wide Kingdom on earth
___________________________________________________
Mitt Romney told us that Jesus was coming to Missouri...
Exactly WHICH Christian church, clown ?
The Presbyterians, who believe in predestination ?
The Catholics, who pray to saints ?
The Baptists, who believe drinking alcohol is sinful, even though Christ's first miracle was turning water into wine at a wedding ?
Seems to me a church that calls itself "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" has some call to denote itself as Christian - which is a hell of a lot more than many of the posters on this thread do.
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?"
I disagree with you. We got stuck with McCain because there wasn’t a strong conservative who had the money to outlast Mitt.
Mitt’s money and power couldn’t overcome his record as a RINO nor his obvious religious handicap.
We’ve tried Romney. We’ve vetted him. He can’t win. Next!
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