Posted on 03/06/2009 5:22:10 PM PST by delacoert
When students enroll they have to agree to abide by the honor code, which, for Mormons, includes being active in the church. Hardy knew this. The whole thing was a setup.
Hardy had not been to BYU in years. Apparently, he dropped out in 2002 with a few hours to go. In the intervening years, he quit attending church, published his homoerotic calendar, and became a vocal critic of the church for its stand on gay marriage. You do the math.
At least as early as March of this year, his ecclesiastical authorities wherever he was living, probably Las Vegas, were trying to reach him to discuss his membership. Check out the dates on the e-mail string.
Instead of responding so that the church could go ahead with the church court, Hardy enrolled in some online courses at BYU in June, knowing full well that he was not entitled to enroll at BYU because he was not living the honor code, and knowing full well that he was going to be excommunicated.
As I said, when he decided, not just to leave the church, but to become a vocal enemy, he no longer had any right to take advantage of the education offered by BYU, and subsidized by the tithing of faithful members. But he did it anyway.
When he enrolled online, the university would have had no way of knowing about the pending excommunication.
The whole thing was a setup, designed to give this weasel a platform from which to attack the church. BYU has some very smart lawyers. I’m sure they feel confident about their position.
He was not entitled to re-enroll at BYU to get those last few credits, but he did it anyway. He should have transferred the credits he already had, and gotten his degree somewhere else, if a degree was what he was really interested in. But, of course, that’s not what he was interested in.
That should be March of last year.
Listen to that little weasel on the youtube recordings.
He was given an opportunity to refute any allegations of immorality, but he refused to do so. If he was really interested in correcting the record and clearing his good name, he could have done so at the appeal. But that’s not what he wanted to do.
He reenrolled in BYU — online — after all those meetings took place. He knew full well that he had no right to do so, and he knew full well that BYU wouldn’t know about those meetings unless he told them, or unless he later chose to publicize his excommunication, which he did.
As for the church disciplinary proceedings, Hardy may or may not be telling the truth. They are private and the church will not discuss them, so he can pretty much say whatever he wants without fear of anyone who was there setting the record straight.
Oh, were you THERE, so you KNOW about the RECORD?????
Frankly, I thought the "weasely" sounding one was Vernon Heperi.
If he was really interested in correcting the record and clearing his good name, he could have done so at the appeal. But that’s not what he wanted to do.
Well, not ALL of us "exes" have a taste for kissing the nether end of mormon leaders. We leave that to the so-called "worthy ones".
And, perhaps, he just doesn't desire to have his "name cleared" with those whose judgment includes idolizing a charlatan and womanizer. I can relate to that.
Hardy was not in his junior year (or another other point in his tenure there) but had finished his academic requirements and indeed the degree had been issued.
Any school that awards degrees, public or private, has outside authorities to deal with.
beyond that you also question the contract, they too have a contract to award his degree, and he had completed said work and even walked BEFORE they gave final disposition.
You mention cheating and stealing etc. Interesting you say that, because if instead of this calender issue etc. he had indeed cheated and was then awarded a degree, it could be withdrawn by the institution (indeed any public or private) since the degree was obtained fraudulently.
If you had actually read any of my post this thread, and I know you and yours either don't or for whatever reason seem to blow by what they say, you know I heap no praise on Mr. Hardy, in fact the opposite.
The degree was awarded, it is very possible a public court could decide in his favor since he did complete the academic requirement. If it had been mid process, before his hours had ben finished there would be no room for such issues. That is not what happened in this case.
There indeed was another case, one I am aware of and indeed discussed with on of the principles yesterday due to this matter, it occurred at another institution under similar settings. It was determined to award the degree due to the fact the hours were complete and the degree was issued. The attorneys had made it clear there were definite possibilities that questions from the state and the court in general could be a factor. However the student had earned honors that were stripped was denied any post graduate support or recommendations for future graduate level work as well as a few other things including something with a scholarship.
Even private schools do not function in a vacuum no matter our faith. We can argue points of belief, but in the world we inhabit there are other things that can influence us.
Pretty tall tale.
I have heard tell that Smithian's have a fine tradition of tale telling.
I notice that Mr. Hardy's lawyers are quite willing and able to construct a time-line, provide background documentation, and explain their client's side of the story in a pretty convincing manner.
Maybe your tale will help clarify things.
This what I keep wondering we were all given the Ten Commandments right!
So each faith has their guidelines some can dance, some can’t dance, some can drink and smoke, some can’t etc.
The LDS has their code of conduct.
1- So why should anyone on the out side question the Church policies I might not agree with another faith policy but I would respect that is how they do it!
This young man who is gay has issues with the Church stand on Gay Marriage and the fact he comes from a many generation of LDS makes it hard to resolve his conflict.
There is no getting around he wanted to strike back at the Church and he knew what he was doing with this shirtless calendar of return missionaries who most likely were not to keen going on a mission or it was like a vacation to them and not the Lord’s errand.
If you are a missionary you have a temple recommend and one has choosen to obey the covenants of modesty and being worthy to wear the garments.
Is because it is an BYU/LDS opportunity to have sport this has been going on for three days new post.
If that is the case say so....
Although I pray should there be an issuse in the mainstream that my prayers will be with you to practiced your faith according to your doctrine.
Read the lawyers’ letter.
They are not challenging the withholding of the diploma, they are only challenging the fact that mention was made of “other reasons” for the excommunication, and that people were assuming that Hardy was engaged in immorality. Notice that Hardy has not denied immorality (except for denying a sexual relationship with one particular female). He is merely denying that that was the basis for his excommunication.
So, the lawyers write this long letter, concluding by saying that Hardy just wants an opportunity to set the record straight about the reasons for the excommunication and clear his name.
So, BYU gives him a review, which he tapes. And, at which he knows that all the honor code questions will be asked, giving him that precise opportunity to clear his name — if his name is, in fact, “clearable.”
What does he do? He refuses to answer the questions which would clear his name.
If he didnt’ want to answer to BYU, he should not have reenrolled in June of 2008. But he did so, dishonestly.
He is an activist with an agenda.
If he didn’t want to answer, he should not have reenrolled in BYU, which he did after he knew that he was scheduled for church discipline, and when he knew that, because he hadn’t attended church for years, he was not eligible to reenroll. He should have taken his credits somewhere else and completed his diploma there.
WHY aren't all you mormons on FR demanding the excommunication of the returned missionaries that posed for the calendar? Those men knew they were acting against the church in publicly posing without their garments.
I'm waiting for one of you to do the research and post the details of the disciplinary councils against these guys.
Perhaps because they have not become anti-Church gay rights activists.
Did Chad Hardy say that he was gay?
Was he outed?
Are you repeating speculation that you have read or heard?
Are you making this up?
Shouldn't you wait until these men are excommunicated before you start telling their stories for them?
LOL!
Still why do some here who claim to be Christian are defending this behavior is still puzzling to me?
the rebuttal is always the same give some liberal PC agenda put the focuse elsewhere, distract from the core of the issue.
True Christains are not into being PC but up holding the comandments of the Lord.
“As many of you know that for the past two years of my show I have been trying to interview members of the *GLBT community so the stories that are being told will help educate, entertain and hopefully change perceptions people have about the community. Today’s guest Chad Hardy wants to do the same”
*GLBT lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender
http://rambleredhead.com/category/chad-hardy/
I did, maybe better than you.
heh sure... and 2 + 2 = 0
The lawyers are outlining the case for challenging the ecclesiastical basis for rescinding the degree.
The church's excommunication was the reason for BYU's decision. Vernon Heperi, BYU Dean of Students, made that point repeatedly as he kept reexplaining how he could reverse the decision to rescind the diploma by reestablishing Mr. Hardy's academic standing. Heperi himself established the facts that the original basis for rescinding Hardy's diploma was ecclesiastical and that as Dean of Students he could overrule that decision solely on a basis of academic authority.
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