LDS Beliefs in Focus

The Mormon Times ^ | March 18, 2009 | Joel Campbell

[Old Mountain man]

By the way, since when is a member of a lynch mob entitled to not be shot at by anyone?

[greyfoxx39]

Please provide the names of the two men you claim the Prophet Joseph Smith killed. If you cannot provide the names, please withdraw your remarks.

John Taylor, who became the third President of the Mormon Church, made these statements concerning the death of Joseph Smith: "Elder Cyrus H. Wheelock came in to see us, and when he was about leaving drew a small pistol, a six-shooter, from his pocket, remarking at the same time, 'Would any of you like to have this?' Brother JOSEPH immediately replied, 'YES, give it to me,' whereupon he took the pistol, and put it in his pantaloons pocket.... I was sitting at one of the front windows of the jail, when I saw a number of men, with painted faces, coming around the corner of the jail, and aiming towards the stairs.... "I shall never forget the deep feeling of sympathy and regard manifested in the countenance of Brother Joseph as he drew nigh to Hyrum, and, leaning over him, exclaimed, 'Oh! my poor, dear brother Hyrum!' He, however, instantly arose, and with a firm, quick step, and a determined expression of countenance, approached the door, and pulling the six-shooter left by Brother Wheelock from his pocket, opened the door slightly, and snapped the pistol six successive times; only three of the barrels, however, were discharged. I afterwards understood that two or three were WOUNDED by these discharges, TWO of whom, I am informed DIED." (History of the Church, Vol. 7, pp. 100, 102 & 103

HERE are the names:

Reporter John Hay, of the Atlantic Monthly identified three men who were shot by Joseph Smith: John Wills in the arm, William Vorhees in the shoulder, and William Gallagher in the face. Hay was a son of Charles Hay, a surgeon of the Carthage militia and apparently a member of the mob.

[Old Mountain man]

So, now you admit you have been lying all along about The Prophet Joseph Smith killing two mobsters? Wow, what other falsehoods have you promulgated?

[greyfoxx39]

I admit no such thing, and NOW I am back to my usual response to your garbage......

[Religion Moderator]

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

The term "lie" implies the intent to deceive, which is reading the other poster's mind, a form of "making it personal."

[Godzilla]

Why do you want to fool the readers into not knowing that you have taken the ends of two different conversations and tied them together in a way that supports your ideas, but is untrue as you combine them?

Well Fred, there is a VERY easy way to clear this up - is it one God or multiple gods. Why do you want to fool the readers into not know what your beliefs really are?

[reaganaut]

Most PhDs I have worked with come to me to tell them how to do things

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Too true. I know brilliant scholars who cannot balance their checkbook or deal with everyday life. My father was that way, certified genius but could not get dressed properly in the morning without my mother.

Fortunately, I got my father’s intellect and mother’s “down to earth” qualities.

[Tennessee Nana]

GF,

Have you ever read Foxes Book of Martyrs ???

I have a copy...

I’ve read it from cover to cover and not one of those Christians who were burnt at the stake, beheaded, hanged, drawn and quartered etc...

had a gun...

Can they really be counted among the “martyrs” ??????

Must they have been involved in a Gunfight at the Carthage Jail type of death to be “recommended” ???

[reaganaut]

Exactly HOW did you get that from my post #522? The point was it is NOT about membership or collection plates, especially in poor countries. It is ALL about Christ and His saving work.

And considering the number of those leaving the LDS now, it looks like we are “poaching” your members, not the other way around.

[reaganaut]

It’s all sweetness and light among Protestant denominations, right? You are okay with them ordaining homosexuals. That doesn’t effect their “truthfulness” at all. But, according to you, we Mormons going to hell because we believe the parts of the New Testament that indicate that the Godhead is three acting as one, instead of one acting as three, and because we believe that when James said “faith without works is dead,” he was right, and that commandments are actually commandments, and not suggestions.

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I do not support the ordination of Homosexuals. Homosexuality is against biblical teachings. And support from those teachings comes mostly from the higher levels, not the rank and file.

Yet I still believe someone can be a member of the ELCA can be a Christian.

The LDS doctrine of the Godhead is not consistent with Biblical views.

I accept James, and agree that if I claim faith, yet have not works, my faith may be in question.

I believe commandments are commandment, not suggestions, and I resent your implication that I believe otherwise.

However, the endowment oaths, secret handshakes, visiting teaching, home teaching, and all the other “requirements” of the LDS are NOT commandments of God and are NOT biblical.

[reaganaut]

... I bid you adieu.

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Can you type that in Reformed Egyptian for us?

[Tennessee Nana]

ROFLMBO

[ejonesie22]

It is like you are in some alternate universe with these guys. They will stand out in a thunderstorm soaking wet declaring it a sunny day just becase you said it was raining...

[reaganaut]

....what church do you belong to?

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WHY does it always come down to what church we attend? Can they just NOT fathom how all Christians belong to the church universal - the body of Christ?

Why is always about denominations?

[reaganaut]

Can’t you people do anything other than make stuff up?

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What have we “made up”? Most of what is posted are quotes from your leaders, and info posted on LDS sites.

[greyfoxx39]

What have we “made up”? Most of what is posted are quotes from your leaders, and info posted on LDS sites.

Aye, and "there's the rub"!

[reaganaut]

As in Medieval CHRISTIAN Women ????

But how can that be ???

The church was not here...

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I know, SHOCKING, isn’t it?

[reaganaut]

Of course, since you are apostate none of that measures up to a BA in Theology from BYU...

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Yeah I know and the fact that I am an apostate because I used the brain God gave me and “thought myself out of the Church” must mean I don’t know ANYTHING at all.

Go figure.

[reaganaut]

that is funny.

[reaganaut]

Have you ever read Foxes Book of Martyrs ???

I have a copy...

I’ve read it from cover to cover and not one of those Christians who were burnt at the stake, beheaded, hanged, drawn and quartered etc...

had a gun...

---

I LOVE Foxe’s Book of Martyrs! It is so inspiring. One of the ministries I work with is Voice of the Martyrs, a group that helps persecuted Christians throughout the world.

Even today there are many Christians who are killed for their faith, yet you do not read about them “shooting back”.